Most responsive turbochargers

[paul cawson]

Originally Posted by SamuraiSam

Loss of momentum =/= inertia.

Surge is surge..

Which has a direct effect on lag

Originally Posted by SamuraiSam

Try out "Transient Response". tyndago's thread "Turbo lag real or imagined" Which the OP quoted as having read, clearly addresses what lag actually is and confusion with the term "boost threshold"..

I have no such confusion, they are two separate problems turbo lag is real.



To clarify for the technically inept

Boot threshold = the point at which the turbo first makes boost say 3000rpm as a bench mark figure
Lag = loss of turbo wheel momentum during lets say a gear change until the point it makes the same boost again

[GT-R Glenn]

Most responsive turbochargers



VERY FIRST POST

As it seems I may soon be in the market for a new pair of turbochargers I'd like to find out which ones are the most responsive (quickest spool-up) if I wanted to attain 600 PS at the flywheel with a standard displacement RB26DETT.

In response to my 10 odd links That I had no problem at all finding

Not aiming for 600 PS, thus doesn't answer my question.

Ive had enough of this thread its stupid.....Anyone who says he cant answer the thread title needs to learn how to read.....
In fact you might as well turn off the entire site, if there isny enough info here to answer that question...

sigh ...

[SamuraiSam]

Originally Posted by paul cawson

Which has a direct effect on lag


I have no such confusion, they are two separate problems turbo lag is real.



To clarify for the technically inept

Boot threshold = the point at which the turbo first makes boost say 3000rpm as a bench mark figure
Lag = loss of turbo wheel momentum during lets say a gear change until the point it makes the same boost again

Gotcha. I use the term "Transient Response" which i copied from other tech-heads and actual turbo experts like Corky Bell and Geoff Racier to describe "time" above the boost threshold that it takes for the turbo to produce usable boost. It helps avoid confusion over that vs. threshold

[SamuraiSam]

Originally Posted by hodgie

SamuraiSam you obviously know all the technical terminology but i think you`ll find that most of us on here dont have the slightest idea of what your going on about.

Understood. All of the technical terms I am using are explained in tyndago's 'Turbo lag real or imagined' post and also the previous poster before me just touched on what I consider to be the real definition of "lag" aka transient response

Originally Posted by hodgie

Maybe you need to understand that we aren`t all mechanics just inthusiasts because your technical posts although maybe factually correct do nothing but belittle some of us on here.

Understood. will try to link more items. I do always reccomend a few of the same books and reading sources like turbobygarrett.com's tech section - 101 on up.

[Alecci]

Seems I cannot keep from writing in this thread...

Originally Posted by GT-R Glenn

I think you got ahead of yourself there. I wrote that in response to the thread you recommended. I am aiming for 600 PS, the OP of that thread wasn't, and hence the turbochargers recommended for him would not suit me as the ones recommended had a lower maximum power output.

Originally Posted by GT-R Glenn

sigh ...

The last chart you posted would probably be very useful if put back into its context. I've obviously missed that one.

I agree that some or most questions could quite probably be answered by searching for other threads. During the time I've been a member of this board, I've not only used the search function, but I've also spent time reading threads and posts as they've come up along the way. Ironically enough, that's one of the reasons I'm in the situation I'm currently in (long story that's not related to any mistakes on my part).

So far I've yet to find a suitable turbocharger that slots in between the GT2530's and GT-SS's, even after reading lots of threads like the one you've posted (admitted, I haven't read all). Thus I don't feel like all my questions can be answered by searching.

Maybe I'm mistaken (and if I am, I will probably have SamuraiSam correcting me, so no worries), but smaller turbochargers generally start generating boost lower in the rev range (having a lower boost threshold?) than a bigger one, at the expense of maximum power output. I also remember from my early days with turbocharged cars that turbos are at maximum efficiency when running as close as possible to their maximum power output, as the cost of longevity.

My conclusion from this is that I should choose the smallest possible turbocharger that will generate the kind of power I'm aiming for. Taking this into consideration, and with regards to what's stated above (presuming that is correct) gives the reason why I am looking for something to slot in between the two most popular choices. As I want 600 PS, the GT-SS or direct equivalent is too small while the GT2530 or direct equivalent, quoted at 640 PS, is too big.

Maybe it is impossible to find what I'm looking for, but that's not been said by anyone yet, and I have not given up. My guess would be (from using the search function and reading other threads) that the GT2510's would fit my needs, but it seems they're not being produced anymore and they're really hard to get your hands on. Moreover, the reason that I've seen cited as reason for not producing them anymore was that their design had passed their best-before date. That's another reason to look for a better alternative.

Still, having already spent good amounts of money purchasing new exhaust manifolds, L-bows and hard pipes, I also want to retain the use of the standard flanges, and thus a bolt-on application would best suit my needs.

On a side note, though far less important, is that we all try to individualize our cars to some degree. Someone in this thread said something like "do what everyone else does", and if that's the only way to go at it, that would be fine. Idon't pretend to be pioneering the art of building turbocharged engines, but if I could find an alternative that will work as good - or even better - as those found by others, why not go for it?

This time I hope I've made my point somewhat clearer. If you still think the info I'm looking for is out there, I'd be much obliged if you could direct me to it, because in that case I'd gladly admit that I've somehow managed to miss it completely.

[Alecci]

Originally Posted by SamuraiSam

Lot's of text in several replies.

My dear friend SamuraiSam!

I know the basics of how turbochargers work. Enough I would think for just being an enthusiast and not a mechanic or other professional with related tasks. Enough to make a choice for myself based on other people's experiences and verdicts on plausible alternatives when presented to me.

I'll admit though that I don't completely understand how to read a compressor map. My competences lie elsewhere than in the mechanical/technical fields, a fact that I surmise you've already guessed. If you feel you have the will and energy to enlighten me, please don't hesitate to do so.

I have read lots of other posts, and I have made a decision: none of those mentioned yet - save the GT2510 - is not what I'm looking for. The GT2510 itself is, like I explained in my previous post addressed to GT-R Glenn, not my first choice for the reasons explained.

The reason I wanted a comparison with other turbochargers is because I felt that would be easier for me to comprehend, both because I am technically inept and also, to some slight degree, because of language barriers. I'm really trying my best to further educate myself when it comes to reading/writing/speaking English, but the fact remains that it isn't my first language and I'm having enough hard time with 'proper terminology' in Swedish as it is.

As for me not having any business working on a GTR, at least I've managed to restore my vehicle after a track racing incident and upgrading it in the process, with only little help and no prior experience at all working with cars. Whether this will suit to change your verdict on me having no business working on GTR's or not, I myself would like to think that there's still hope of learning something I don't already know.

If your statement that boost is irrelevant and only power matters still stands, how come not everyone's running oversized turbos for longevity reasons, that will provide them the power output they're aiming for at the expense of drivability? How come we're still not using older designs, that can generate the same power and have similar longevity but worse characteristics overall?

If it wasn't for your poor attitude (you yourself conceded to being an asshole), I would probably embrace your advice/help more.

Furthermore, a little bit of advice from me to you (though I guess you will not care the least)... I'm a moderator on several Swedish forums, and a guideline I myself and other moderators abide to is that just because you've seen a question being asked a thousand times before, that doesn't mean that the poster has. Therefore, if you're going to reply at all, do it as if it's the first time you're answering that question. If you don't want to spend the time and/or energy to do so, don't respond at all and let someone else take care of it instead.

I do respect the fact that you're considerably more knowledgable on this subject than I am (and that goes for GT-R Glenn as well), and therefore I'd rather not have you as a "foe" on this board. That is the sole reason why I'm even responding to all of this, as I usually refrain from writing replies to people that for some reason, be it immaturity or whatever, cannot keep a good tone.

[paul cawson]

Originally Posted by SamuraiSam

Gotcha. I use the term "Transient Response" which i copied from other tech-heads and actual turbo experts like Corky Bell and Geoff Racier to describe "time" above the boost threshold that it takes for the turbo to produce usable boost. It helps avoid confusion over that vs. threshold

Your interpretation is still wrong boost threshold is the point at which the turbo starts to make boost so 0.1 bar for example, and usable boost would depend on your engine but 0.3 bar as a rough figure. So you say the transient response is another word for lag and is the time between these events.
I say you could be doing 7000 rpm lift off, then back on the throttle and get lag. So its not the same thing.

[vettekiller]

TO ME THE TOMEI B7660 KIT

JEFF

[Andy_P]

Originally Posted by makenski

anyone try gt2835? how do they perform? do they fit with stock manifold?

I know 2 people....one has it still the other upgraded to a monster.
Great from what I've heard......that's why I've just bought one
Yes just about the largest you can put on stock manifold....so I believe.

[Zoidman]

You'll easily make 600hp @ the flywheel with HKS GT-SS if you use E85. You will also gain a lot of torque and the engine will run much cooler. Plus it's cheaper than petrol.

[HenrikssonFord]

Are you seriouse about this thread flaming thing? I mean, searching this forum for turbo comparations, put it all together, analyze it and then get a result that you'll have to post a thread to get some kind of confirmation on anyway would probably take einstein 5 hours to accomplish.


My friend had GT-SS turbos on his R33 GT-R and they were just as laggy as my R34 N1 60/64 turbos. Full boost at ~4500rpm with stock cams and mainfolds.


Honestly, I would'nt dear to post a thread in this forum anymore, it might be a bad reference on my job application..

[revs210]

The GT-SS / or the garret -9's are the go.

Setup right they are as responsive as you need.

If you go the -5's or bigger, bear in mind that the extra legs they have will cost you in terms of supporting mods if you tune in the extra power they offer.

easy.