Tuner Threads

[Howsie]

Please post your perspective here. Let's not get into the individual threads but instead discuss the pro's and con's of open discussion.

I am right in the middle of such a 'process' with a 'tuner' and I believe I would have benefited greatly had these sort of discussions been out in the open before - rather than behind the scenes.

Now please keep it on topic or Lux will be along with is throbbing finger.

[ahapartridge]

Not everyone has the ability or technical know-how to enable them to stand up for their right should a failure occur through no fault of their own, being able to discuss their issue with people who may be able to assist technically or advise how to resolve their issue is a great benefit of open discussion.

I do find it difficult to make my mind up whether the fact that a tuner is or isn't a sponsor/trader on the forum where the discussion is being held should have an influence on whether open discussion is fitting.

We also find through a lot of these open discussions that there is more to it than first meets the eye, two sides to every story etc

In essence I am mostly for it as long as it does not get abusive and the tuner is allowed to have their input.

[Eikichi]

Up for it as long as it's done in a respectful way & it's a benefit to everyone, but easier said than done

Originally Posted by Howsie

I believe I would have benefited greatly had these sort of discussions been out in the open before

Do you have a link to the specific topic? Would be keen to learn from your experience

Originally Posted by Howsie

Now please keep it on topic or Lux will be along with is throbbing finger.

Oh Chris grand maitre vénéré... we are not worth it... lol

[davew]

i think as long as the info is factual and constructive then it should be discussed on an open forum. We all have a common interest and should be able to help each other

[xaero1]

I am all for these threads.

A) You get to hear if somebody has had a bad experience, where others would not tell you.
B) The tuner gets the opportunity to respond with their side of the story
C) Based on the quality of the response or actions from the tuner, you can then make a more informed decision on which tuners you'd like to use.

As far as I'm concerned everybody can make a mistake, but what's important is how they deal with those mistakes afterwards.

[R33_GTS-t]

I see the forum as a great mediation facility.

[Howsie]

Originally Posted by Eikichi

Do you have a link to the specific topic? Would be keen to learn from your experience

Not yet.

[Rbentley]

Off topic


Thanks, I had no idea how to do alternate smileys.

[gtrlux]

The problem is that more theses threads come up, more peeps will try to post similar stuff. Many threads will be valuable, like Howsie mentions, but I fear that 90% will be trash. More than that, if tuner bashing threads are allowed, next will be insurance company threads (which allready got locked from time to time) . . . . all this will end in to a great mess, the forum will degenerate in to a hole of wrong, deformed and dangerous miss-information.

For the sake of keeping the standards this forum has, we should take a very close look on new threads of this type and I really hope senior members will help us to keep the sheeps at the farm.

Regards

Chris

[simmie]

Originally Posted by gtrlux

The problem is that more theses threads come up, more peeps will try to post similar stuff. Many threads will be valuable, like Howsie mentions, but I fear that 90% will be trash. More than that, if tuner bashing threads are allowed, next will be insurance company threads (which allready got locked from time to time) . . . . all this will end in to a great mess, the forum will degenerate in to a hole of wrong, deformed and dangerous miss-information.

For the sake of keeping the standards this forum has, we should take a very close look on new threads of this type and I really hope senior members will help us to keep the sheeps at the farm.

Regards

Chris

so much for open debate then ....

there is difference between moderate and censor , as long as people keep to the forum rules then it should nt be an issue .

Tuner threads should be posted but they will be controversial

my 2 cents

[bernmc]

Originally Posted by xaero1

As far as I'm concerned everybody can make a mistake, but what's important is how they deal with those mistakes afterwards.

Well said that man.

We're supposed to be a 'community'. To me that means we should be here to help each other out, and that may mean upsetting some big names - even names that sponsor the site.

The only source of good and bad experiences we have is what we've been through ourselves.

If mods are going to be heavy handed with the 'bad' tuner threads, then they should be just as quick to lock the 'good' tuner threads.

I give credit where it's due - When a tuner has looked after me, and I post my thanks here - because I think others should know that they're a good bunch. You can be damn sure I'll be just as quick to scream blue murder if I get shafted though - and I would expect the 'community' to help me out.

We do need to be careful with language and unsubstantiated claims though...

[Mookistar]

my perspective

1.) person with greivance should only post AFTER all other avenues have been exhausted

2.) the forum should not be used to blackmail or hold tuners to ransom

3.) the tuner should always been given the oppurtunity to respond BEFORE every armchair mechanic steps in with his tuppeneth worth.

mook

[nismoman]

it,s a tricky subject,because it,s down to the indeviduals interpritation of the problem and the tuners response.some may agree with a tuners responce some may not.i,ve seen tuners work on cars which is nothing short of a rip off,but were they told for what ever reason to carry out the work like that????who knows.then on the other hand theres people on here who will slag tuners off but when you get to here the other side the tuners have told some people take your car somewere else because of there unreasonable demands and behavour.
dont know if it,s a good thing or a bad thing,but what i do know is because theres money involved there will be clouded vison on both side.
another thought is WHAT ABOUT THE TUNERS THAT DO NOT USE THE FORUM but work on a lot of the forum uses cars????

[NITO]

He who lives by the forum, dies by the forum!!

If there are so many people bashing a tuner that says something about them. Having dissatisfied customers is a downward spiral, customer satisfaction ultimately, is everything.

imho, they have to take the rough with the smooth, just as having many satisfied customers on a forum will do wonders for a tuners business, they have to be prepared for the flack they get if they don't do a good job no use whinging about it and bleating to moderators to protect their business interests. If they really want to protect their interests they need to tackle the root of the problem, which is their customers dissatisfaction because this will soon spread by word of mouth with or without a forum.

I do sympathise to an extent with tuners in that once they touch a car they own it in that anything goes wrong with it, they are blamed. However there is far too much hand washing that goes on and putting the blame back on the customer. Some tuners are excellent in some aspects of tuning and very poor in others. If people could see a pattern emerging they could choose which one for the works that need doing.

Some are consistently bad at certain things. Some customers don't have a clue as to what constitutes good or bad and their recommendations need to be taken with a pinch of salt just as someone bashing a tuner does also. A historian will always question how reliable a source is. It's no different on a forum, you form your own opinion of who you consider reliable or not, people on here are intelligent enough to come to their own conclusions.

So if someone is holding a tuner to ransom unjustly, it'll soon become apparent. Just as, if a tuner has done a shit job to the point that the customer is going to go elsewhere as it is unresolvable and many times its easier to walk away and take your business elsewhere, they should be able to pass on their 'experience' without posts being censored.

The bigger issue is and always has been, that this site is supported by tuners with their banner ads, if they get too much of a ribbing they will withdraw support and we have to respect the commercial aspect of the forum. If we all paid for membership then perhaps we would have a right to criticise. It's a pity that it falls into the moderators hands on the forum to resolve (one way or another), as Cem has said before, he doesn't provide this forum as a soap box for disgruntled customers to use as a platform to attack the tuners and doesn't want to get involved with legal wrangles etc.

What it comes down to, is the tuners themselves. If they are worth their salt, they should not have an issue with people posting bad threads and deal with it rather than hide behind their banner ad shield. That says more about them than anything else, again imho.

Over the years many businesses on car forums have been made or broken on reputation and many have been exposed for what they are.

Hence my opening comment.


Nito

[matt j]

Originally Posted by Howsie

I am right in the middle of such a 'process' with a 'tuner' and I believe I would have benefited greatly had these sort of discussions been out in the open before - rather than behind the scenes.

I make NO effort to hide the fact that I too am an unhappy customer of my former tuner. Had I heard the stories of others in the similar boat at the time, I would have thought twice about having the works carried out there.
I find it absurd that no matter how hard I search I can not find 1 single bad word said against them in the history of this forum. Knowing many owners who are also unhappy and have ultimately left my former tuner I find this quite disturbing as it either means;
1. People are afraid to bad mouth them even if the service received wasn't reflected by the price charged.
2. They are being protected (Ban me if you like but that's my personal opinion)
3. People are that fed-up of waiting to get a resolution they have just bitten the bullet, swallowed the cost and gone somewhere else that provides a service equaling the prices charged.

Originally Posted by xaero1

As far as I'm concerned everybody can make a mistake, but what's important is how they deal with those mistakes afterwards.

Exactly, denying it til you are blue in the face doesn't get past 2 engineering reports that state the tuner to be at fault - at what stage are they expected to become a man and stand by the work they did and admit they are wrong and rectify it. If my former tuner had done this it would potentially have saved them tens of thousands if they loose in court and they would have saved face by being adult about it. Turning your back once you have the money is laim to the n'th degree.

Originally Posted by NITO

The bigger issue is and always has been, that this site is supported by tuners with their banner ads, if they get too much of a ribbing they will withdraw support and we have to respect the commercial aspect of the forum. If we all paid for membership then perhaps we would have a right to criticise. It's a pity that it falls into the moderators hands on the forum to resolve (one way or another), as Cem has said before, he doesn't provide this forum as a soap box for disgruntled customers to use as a platform to attack the tuners and doesn't want to get involved with legal wrangles etc.

If a private person such as myself were to take out a banner ad for whatever purpose I chose, would I have the same pull as a tuner, could I then post the 'legally' proven facts and not have them deleted from the forum history so people cannot find evidence of the problems myself and many other have had in the background for the past 4 years that I know of?

The above is my opinion, ban me for it if you like but I'm sick and tired of the constant hiding behind legal action against the forum - FFS on what grounds do these people intend to make a case? I didn't like what he said even though my own independent specialist Engineer says I'm at fault yet I'm not man enough to admit I'm wrong so I want you to remove the thread or I'll take you to court for owning the site he said all those true things about me on...
Who's at fault, the tuner for threatening legal action or the forum team for believing they'd be able to uphold a case against them? Perhaps I should post some of the actual legal documentation to support my case and have my say so that other possibly won't suffer the same experience I have had to endure for the past 43 months and counting...

I don't blame Cem for what he did but even when faced with facts I received no support, the support was with the banner ad tuner.