Bosch 044 vs 413

[kismetcapitan]

I've been poking around on the web, and on Bosch's website. We all know the venerable 044 pump, which Bosch rates to 5 bars. The 413 is the exact, EXACT same pump, but Bosch guarantees that it will run to 8 bars. I read a page where someone made a claim that Bosch bench tests some production 044s and if they cut the mustard, they rebadge it as a "413", rate it to 8 bars, and charge more for it.

Now, I've just ordered a pair of 044s, but I need them to work at 6 bars. What's a good test rig to set up and see what they're flowing at that pressure? Or if I'm lucky and have a "413 qualified" pump? Or is this all bullshit and there's no difference between a 044 and a 413 other than marketing and price?

A Bosch 044 is rated at 200lph at 5 bars. The 413 is rated to flow that same amount at 8 bars. All I really need is to be able to squeeze out 150lph per pump at 6 bars rail pressure. I did some math this way: Denso 720cc injectors increase flow linearly, 50cc per 0.5bar IIRC (I've got it written down somewhere). So at 4 bars base pressure, the injectors are flowing 820cc/min. At 90% injector duty (which is what I've seen running boost at 2 bars), that means I'm flowing 738cc per injector, or 4,428cc/min peak flow. That works out to 266lph, but I need it at 6 bars.

Bosch fuel pump experts...?

[GarethK]

The pump has an internal relief which on the '044' is set to around 7.5-8 bar - you can see it working here:



It also shows that you should get your 150 l/hr at 6 bar quite comfortably.

The 413 has a relief valve which is set higher, it is not a 'chance' 'superpump'! I can't find any flow charts for the 413 but it will probably have a relief somewhere around 10 or 11 bar.

[kismetcapitan]

thanks! according to what I've researched, the 413 flow characteristics are essentially the same as the 044.

[phill200sx]

If you need more pressure from the Bosch pumps all you need to do is run them in series (i.e one flowing into the other).

They use a pair of 413's running like that on WRC cars to get 16bar fuel pressure!!

[Adam Kindness]

any ideas on the 910's?

[GT-R Glenn]

910's are babies, you would need 2 to support anything like 600hp
from memory they are rated at about 350hp

it goes 910 040 044 basically.

[Adam Kindness]

from memory, my setup will run walbro 255 feeder to swirl pot and twin 910's. I think they are about 400bhp rated (each)

[kismetcapitan]

the twin 044s have fulfilled my fueling requirements, finally. They flow like crazy and supply more than enough fuel even at full boost without the slightest drop in pressure anywhere in the system. Oh yes, I am happy!

[Adam Kindness]

twin 044's!!! For sub 700bhp'ish?

Are you pipeing fuel into the cabin to drink too!!! haha

[kismetcapitan]

I think the idea is that if I want to upgrade to 800+bhp, all I have to change are the turbos, the manifolds (for topmount), and the injectors. Everything else is in place. Well, except the intercooler, I'd have to get a bigger one too. But I'm of the belief that intercoolers are supposed to be size-matched to CFM of a given engine/turbo setup, and bigger isn't always better.

[SteveN]

Originally Posted by kismetcapitan

But I'm of the belief that intercoolers are supposed to be size-matched to CFM of a given engine/turbo setup, and bigger isn't always better.

More like to the temps it can or cant cope with.

The differences in response etc from running a larger intercooler are so minute in the grand scheme of things its not even worth thinking about.

Main reason to keep stock cooler is it works fine so costs you nothing.