My Engine Starts. But It works Very BAD! - GT-R Register - Official Nissan Skyline and GTR Owners Club forum

GreeceS13 · 27th September 2008, 07:37 PM

Please check first my specs in my signature.

My car start to work before two days but we have many problems!!

It works VERY VERY VERY LEAN!! Lean idle (20afr), lean revs on the neutral (17afr) and lean in easy driving (15-20afr).
Very very crap. It revs very very bad. Only at high revs (more than 4000) seems to work better. Ofcourse I don't try to run it in the road with boost but I did a burnout and at high revs looking very coool!! :P

I am not sure what exactly map has the ecu but before I bring here a tuner I want to be sure that I don't have any other problem.
It is a stock r32 ecu and I bought from kgleeson that he had 1000cc injectors z32 mafs and was twin turbo. He said that his car worked great but he bought the ecu second hand and the ecu writes that it was tunned with 660cc but his car worked good.

I don't want to run the car in boost but it cannot run good neither in vacuum.
It is the map sure? Or I must see for something other?

With avc-r show me at idle that the injectors are open only 1.6% but I am not sure if the avc-r shows right.

Do you have ideas?
Something with mafs?
Something I can check?

I repeat tha I want just to be sure that I don't have any other problem and I need just a tuner.

GreeceS13 · 27th September 2008, 09:35 PM

Maybe timing?

Bullitt · 28th September 2008, 06:01 AM

simplest possible problem I can see is maybe a clogged fuel filter (?)

does it idle erratically, meaning varying by 200 to 300 rpms? and does it idle smoothly or roughly?

Madden · 28th September 2008, 06:07 AM

So is the ecu mapped for 1000cc injectors or 660cc? and your running 800cc injectors???????

I think that might be your problem.

GreeceS13 · 28th September 2008, 08:16 AM

kgleeson said me that the ecu is mapped for 660 but he used 1000 with 3.5-4bar fuel pressure at idle.

Erratically is in any rpm.
But we can have a stable idle. But with 20AFR.

The fuel comming with a walbro from the tank to a surge tank and then with two 044 arrives to the fuel rail. One pump arrives each side of the ral (sard). We don't have any fuel filter.

It seems to have enought fuel... from the the fuel pressure regulator we adjust the fuel in whatever fuel pressure we want... if we don't have enought fuel we have seen it to the fuel pressure gauge. Right?

Bullitt · 28th September 2008, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreeceS13

kgleeson said me that the ecu is mapped for 660 but he used 1000 with 3.5-4bar fuel pressure at idle.

Erratically is in any rpm.
But we can have a stable idle. But with 20AFR.

The fuel comming with a walbro from the tank to a surge tank and then with two 044 arrives to the fuel rail. One pump arrives each side of the ral (sard). We don't have any fuel filter.

It seems to have enought fuel... from the the fuel pressure regulator we adjust the fuel in whatever fuel pressure we want... if we don't have enought fuel we have seen it to the fuel pressure gauge. Right?

oohhh okay. how much fuel pressure is there at idle on the rail?

GreeceS13 · 28th September 2008, 08:28 AM

2.5-3 bar.
We test with several fuel pressures... till and 7 bar!!!
With 7 bar was a little better lol

Bullitt · 28th September 2008, 08:38 AM

cr*p 7 bar? that's crazy pressure! lol

i guess you could get the car tuned by a tuner already, as it's already sure you have more than enough fuel in the supply.

another shot you might wanna check, try something with a AFMs. cause the AFMs might be sending low signals to the ECU and therefore, leaning the car. I'm assuming you also have z32 mafs as the ECU was tuned with these. you might find something wrong with those, IDK.

GreeceS13 · 28th September 2008, 09:08 AM

I check the mafs. They sends voltage to the ecu! And ofcourse I have z32 mafs!

kgleeson · 28th September 2008, 09:52 AM

Hi Harrys

The ECU ran fine on my GTR with a Twin Turbo setup I changed becasue of CAMs and single turbo upgrade. The info on the ECU states to use 660cc injectors minimum and Z32 Mafs which you have. You are running this ECU and engine in a Silvia have you got the correct GTR sensors feeding into the ECU? Lamda, knock sensors etc... You also have single TB conversion whcih I assume wil alter fuelling as well. The chip will also need to self learn when you first run the car as all GTR's do. But with such high AFR's I would not run it without Wideband and Det Cans.

I would not sell this ECU to you unless you had the means to re-map it. I have no idea why you think this ECU will run your setup without re-mapping the fuel and ignition values. As discussed you said you were going to use the Romulator and only use the existing map (Bin file) as a starting point.

You need to get the AFR's correct before mapping the timing. The ECU will be expecting closed loop Lamda feedback for idle and will require the correct R32 GTR lamda sensors.

Have you checked the vacuum on the plenum etc... do you have any software (ECUTalk) that can read the ECU values to tell you what it thinks is happening?

You are risking your engine running this ECU without the ability to map it.

Kev

Bullitt · 28th September 2008, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreeceS13

I check the mafs. They sends voltage to the ecu! And ofcourse I have z32 mafs!

I am talking sending proper voltage, just as any stock MAF. I was guessing it is reading 'less air' than what actually gets inhaled (?) by the engine.

and it just occured to me that GT-Rs are closed looped vehicles, so I'm stumped that it makes AFRs as high as 20s.

and it didn't occur to me that you're running it on a Silvia, which means as he has stated that there might be possible errors in the sensors you used.

btw, have you tried running it with a stock ECU? if so, what AFRs do you get?

GreeceS13 · 28th September 2008, 11:54 AM

I don't have any other ecu.
I don't have lamda sensors.. lamda sensors are only to help for better fuel economy.
I have wideband to know what exactly happens.

Self learn the gtr ecu?!? Are you sure?

I don't have any software to read the ecu.
Where can I read how to do a self test?

I try to find which sensors can be responsible for the LEAN!
Knock sensors? Why?? If I have knocks the ecu change the timing...
Lamda sensors? Why?? They are used only to make the car at idle and on cruising to run 14.7 afr! Without lamda in a car runs richer and have bad fuel economy.
Throttle sensor position? I check it and I monitor it from avc-r. It works ok.
MAFS? I check them and they send voltage to the ecu.. they must send 1.5v on idle I read and they send more.

Intake air temp sensor? I don't know how to check if it works good...

What other sensors to check?

kgleeson · 28th September 2008, 12:29 PM

Hi Harrys

A GTR ECU will not work without the Lamda sensor feedback and I am nto sure even with Romulat or Nistune if this is possible.

Yes the Knock sesnors are for ignition retatrd if the ECU detects it.

You need a correct Lamda sensor for the GTR wired into the ECU before you do anything else. The ECU has no input to make corrections so everything else will be useless. Explains why it runs better on boost when the ECU does not use O2 feedback and why it is runnng crap everywhere else.

Kev

GreeceS13 · 28th September 2008, 12:43 PM

Ok my wideband sensor have narrowband(lamda) output signal so I will send it to the ecu lamda input pins to see if there is any difference.

My tuner said me that he can map it without lamda sensors.
The close loop will be mapped instead "correctable" by o2 sensors.

kgleeson · 28th September 2008, 05:46 PM

Hi Harry

Re-set the ECU and then let it idle for 5 - 10 mins with the lamda attached then see how it goes from there. Not sure how well this will work with your wideband the ECU needs the correct sensor and they are different between models. It also needs to be close to the Turbo not in the de-cat

If your tuner can map it so it doesn't need the Lamda Ok as well,
See what happens with the Lamda attached.

27th September 2008, 07:37 PM	#1 (permalink)
GreeceS13 GTR Register Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 181	My Engine Starts. But It works Very BAD! Please check first my specs in my signature. My car start to work before two days but we have many problems!! It works VERY VERY VERY LEAN!! Lean idle (20afr), lean revs on the neutral (17afr) and lean in easy driving (15-20afr). Very very crap. It revs very very bad. Only at high revs (more than 4000) seems to work better. Ofcourse I don't try to run it in the road with boost but I did a burnout and at high revs looking very coool!! :P I am not sure what exactly map has the ecu but before I bring here a tuner I want to be sure that I don't have any other problem. It is a stock r32 ecu and I bought from kgleeson that he had 1000cc injectors z32 mafs and was twin turbo. He said that his car worked great but he bought the ecu second hand and the ecu writes that it was tunned with 660cc but his car worked good. I don't want to run the car in boost but it cannot run good neither in vacuum. It is the map sure? Or I must see for something other? With avc-r show me at idle that the injectors are open only 1.6% but I am not sure if the avc-r shows right. Do you have ideas? Something with mafs? Something I can check? I repeat tha I want just to be sure that I don't have any other problem and I need just a tuner.

28th September 2008, 09:52 AM	#10 (permalink)
kgleeson GTR Register Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Gloucestershire Posts: 1,183	ECC Hi Harrys The ECU ran fine on my GTR with a Twin Turbo setup I changed becasue of CAMs and single turbo upgrade. The info on the ECU states to use 660cc injectors minimum and Z32 Mafs which you have. You are running this ECU and engine in a Silvia have you got the correct GTR sensors feeding into the ECU? Lamda, knock sensors etc... You also have single TB conversion whcih I assume wil alter fuelling as well. The chip will also need to self learn when you first run the car as all GTR's do. But with such high AFR's I would not run it without Wideband and Det Cans. I would not sell this ECU to you unless you had the means to re-map it. I have no idea why you think this ECU will run your setup without re-mapping the fuel and ignition values. As discussed you said you were going to use the Romulator and only use the existing map (Bin file) as a starting point. You need to get the AFR's correct before mapping the timing. The ECU will be expecting closed loop Lamda feedback for idle and will require the correct R32 GTR lamda sensors. Have you checked the vacuum on the plenum etc... do you have any software (ECUTalk) that can read the ECU values to tell you what it thinks is happening? You are risking your engine running this ECU without the ability to map it. Kev

28th September 2008, 12:29 PM	#13 (permalink)
kgleeson GTR Register Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Gloucestershire Posts: 1,183	ECU Hi Harrys A GTR ECU will not work without the Lamda sensor feedback and I am nto sure even with Romulat or Nistune if this is possible. Yes the Knock sesnors are for ignition retatrd if the ECU detects it. You need a correct Lamda sensor for the GTR wired into the ECU before you do anything else. The ECU has no input to make corrections so everything else will be useless. Explains why it runs better on boost when the ECU does not use O2 feedback and why it is runnng crap everywhere else. Kev

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27th September 2008, 09:35 PM	#2 (permalink)
GreeceS13 GTR Register Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 181	Maybe timing?

28th September 2008, 06:01 AM	#3 (permalink)
Bullitt GTR Register Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Manila, Philippines Posts: 21	simplest possible problem I can see is maybe a clogged fuel filter (?) does it idle erratically, meaning varying by 200 to 300 rpms? and does it idle smoothly or roughly?

28th September 2008, 06:07 AM	#4 (permalink)
Madden New Users Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Berkshire Posts: 2,054	So is the ecu mapped for 1000cc injectors or 660cc? and your running 800cc injectors??????? I think that might be your problem.

28th September 2008, 08:16 AM	#5 (permalink)
GreeceS13 GTR Register Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 181	kgleeson said me that the ecu is mapped for 660 but he used 1000 with 3.5-4bar fuel pressure at idle. Erratically is in any rpm. But we can have a stable idle. But with 20AFR. The fuel comming with a walbro from the tank to a surge tank and then with two 044 arrives to the fuel rail. One pump arrives each side of the ral (sard). We don't have any fuel filter. It seems to have enought fuel... from the the fuel pressure regulator we adjust the fuel in whatever fuel pressure we want... if we don't have enought fuel we have seen it to the fuel pressure gauge. Right?

28th September 2008, 08:28 AM	#7 (permalink)
GreeceS13 GTR Register Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 181	2.5-3 bar. We test with several fuel pressures... till and 7 bar!!! With 7 bar was a little better lol

28th September 2008, 08:38 AM	#8 (permalink)
Bullitt GTR Register Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Manila, Philippines Posts: 21	cr*p 7 bar? that's crazy pressure! lol i guess you could get the car tuned by a tuner already, as it's already sure you have more than enough fuel in the supply. another shot you might wanna check, try something with a AFMs. cause the AFMs might be sending low signals to the ECU and therefore, leaning the car. I'm assuming you also have z32 mafs as the ECU was tuned with these. you might find something wrong with those, IDK.

28th September 2008, 09:08 AM	#9 (permalink)
GreeceS13 GTR Register Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 181	I check the mafs. They sends voltage to the ecu! And ofcourse I have z32 mafs!

28th September 2008, 11:54 AM	#12 (permalink)
GreeceS13 GTR Register Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 181	I don't have any other ecu. I don't have lamda sensors.. lamda sensors are only to help for better fuel economy. I have wideband to know what exactly happens. Self learn the gtr ecu?!? Are you sure? I don't have any software to read the ecu. Where can I read how to do a self test? I try to find which sensors can be responsible for the LEAN! Knock sensors? Why?? If I have knocks the ecu change the timing... Lamda sensors? Why?? They are used only to make the car at idle and on cruising to run 14.7 afr! Without lamda in a car runs richer and have bad fuel economy. Throttle sensor position? I check it and I monitor it from avc-r. It works ok. MAFS? I check them and they send voltage to the ecu.. they must send 1.5v on idle I read and they send more. Intake air temp sensor? I don't know how to check if it works good... What other sensors to check?

28th September 2008, 12:43 PM	#14 (permalink)
GreeceS13 GTR Register Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 181	Ok my wideband sensor have narrowband(lamda) output signal so I will send it to the ecu lamda input pins to see if there is any difference. My tuner said me that he can map it without lamda sensors. The close loop will be mapped instead "correctable" by o2 sensors.

28th September 2008, 05:46 PM	#15 (permalink)
kgleeson GTR Register Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Gloucestershire Posts: 1,183	Hi Harry Re-set the ECU and then let it idle for 5 - 10 mins with the lamda attached then see how it goes from there. Not sure how well this will work with your wideband the ECU needs the correct sensor and they are different between models. It also needs to be close to the Turbo not in the de-cat If your tuner can map it so it doesn't need the Lamda Ok as well, See what happens with the Lamda attached.