Porsche accuses Nissan of cheating at 'Ring

[skyline69_uk]

That DR video is great...

TV, videos, motorsport events, driving techniques | DR TV | DRIVERS REPUBLIC

[doggiehowser]

PORSCHE PUBLICLY ACCUSE NISSAN OF FALSIFYING THEIR 7:29 NURBURGRING LAP RECORD !! - Road & Track's Reader Zone - Road & Track Forums

Interesting Discussion with the R&T editor :P

Honestly I don't put much stock in manufacturer lap times. And I really don't put must stock in manufacturer's lap times of other makes. From our experience the GT-R on the Dunlop tires is more trackable than a Porsche 911T.

I have not heard this from Porsche, and if it's true they will have to support it with a lot of data and details.

-Shaun

[bonzelite]

this is just more of the same double-standard being taken to the top level of tastelessness and jealousy.

isn't it interesting that no matter whomever sets a Nur lap such a lap time is virtually never disputed. but then Nissan begins to attack the Ring again with an all new supercar and it's nothing but a pack of lies, top to bottom, side to side, every which way.

yet again Nissan is the underdog and the black sheep and red-headed step child to be hated, dismissed, ignored, disparaged, accused ... in this context the ultimate, penultimate, inadvertent flattery.

[Durzel]

Originally Posted by Robbie J

Porsche make a lot of money on each car, production in Germany is more expensive than some countries but not that much. There is a big industrial support for car manufactures in Germany, you have BMW, Merc, Man, VW etc etc.

Porsche sell a "premium" package and charge for it

As I said "Porsche make a lot of money on each car fullstop"

R

There's the nub of the issue.

Porsche (and others I'm sure) are worried that the GTR will tempt away people with Guy's mindset who see past the badge and buy based on an overall package.

Nissan should take the fact that Porsche are accusing them of cheating as a massive compliment, it shows that the new GTR is on their radar and they view it as a credible threat to their existing business model - something you could never say about the previous GTRs.

Ultimately competition is good for the consumer - whilst I don't expect Porsche to shave £60k+ off the list price of their GTR-wannabes () it is clearly a worry to them, if they fail to distract enough people from jumping ship to Nissan for this and subsequent GTRs then you can bet they'll have to adjust their business model accordingly.

[gtrlux]

Originally Posted by Durzel

There's the nub of the issue.

Porsche (and others I'm sure) are worried that the GTR will tempt away people with Guy's mindset who see past the badge and buy based on an overall package.

Nissan should take the fact that Porsche are accusing them of cheating as a massive compliment, it shows that the new GTR is on their radar and they view it as a credible threat to their existing business model - something you could never say about the previous GTRs.

Ultimately competition is good for the consumer - whilst I don't expect Porsche to shave £60k+ off the list price of their GTR-wannabes () it is clearly a worry to them, if they fail to distract enough people from jumping ship to Nissan for this and subsequent GTRs then you can bet they'll have to adjust their business model accordingly.

Absolutly true . .but still I don't think that any german maker could build the GTR for the price the japanese offre it.
Also I wouldn't underestimate japanese arrogance when it comes to see Porsche as a daddy. The R32 GTR could have been in 1989 what the 400r was in 1996, a 400+PS rocket that would have killed any Porsche, Ferrari for half the price . . . . ( and the 280+HP R32 GTR spanked already most cars availble that time, even being restricted to the abnormal tight laws in japan )

What will happen in future is that japan will produce (finally ) cars that will go out from the japanese conservative boundries of understated salarymen performance cars building. Next year will be a great year for new japanese sports cars and allready now people in europe ask them selves the benefits of buying a 330i when they can have a better handling 330HP Infinit G37 for 10k less . . . . europe has to react or they will just rely on the pure image status of their brands, to keep their customer bases

[Fuggles]

Regardless of the discussion remember all this was started by one journo in Australia against a tide of evidence to the contrary. Just a thought.....

[Guy]

Originally Posted by Fuggles

Regardless of the discussion remember all this was started by one journo in Australia against a tide of evidence to the contrary. Just a thought.....

Good point. This is a Porsche employee speaking to a car journalist at an Australian car show. Not exactly a Porsche press release from Germany.....

[doggiehowser]

In most multi-national companies, not all employees are allowed to talk to the press and if they were, there's often training to avoid faux pas like this.

[gtrlux]

Originally Posted by Guy

Good point. This is a Porsche employee speaking to a car journalist at an Australian car show. Not exactly a Porsche press release from Germany.....

Also true, maybe they thought because they were in Australia, they can just talk anything they want and hope it won't leave the island on the other side of the world . . . (the internet passed the message probably faster , then the Porsche engineer could fly back home . . . )

. . . and by the way , what was Cem doing in Australia?? . .. ups

[Fuggles]

Also, if you know who the man from Porsche is, his job and look at some of his previous comments that puts the comments into context as well

[Philip]

RE: Nissan Hits Back At GT-R Cheat Claims

Phil

[WoREoD]

Nissan have responded....

"NISSAN GT-R TEST PROCEDURES

In light of comments made recently in the media concerning the testing of the Nissan GT-R, it is clear that there are some important facts that were not accurately represented.

Background

• On September 24, 2007 the Nissan GT-R recorded a lap time of the Nordschleife circuit at Germany’s Nurburgring of seven minutes and 38 seconds. This lap time was completed in weather conditions that the Nissan test team knew would not show the full potential of the car.

• On April 17, 2008 the Nissan test team was back at the Nurburgring and recorded a new lap time of seven minutes and 29 seconds, several times.

• For all testing at the Nurburgring and other circuits such as Sendai Highlands in Japan, the GT-R development team used production specification vehicles with production specification tyres. These tests are part of the extensive performance and durability program undertaken before, during and after the commercial introduction of the GT-R.

• The GT-R is a world-class supercar developed to be sold in multiple global markets. While specifications can differ across the various markets, the cars used to record both Nurburgring lap times were identical to the Japanese market production specification cars.

• For the April 2008 test, the GT-R carried an additional 50kg of weight due to the Marelli data recorder and video camera equipment. In addition, the test was witnessed by ‘Best Motoring’ magazine from Japan who reported the test in their July 2008 issue, which included a DVD program of the session.

• Nissan records the lap times around the Nurburgring using the same methodology and measuring locations as Sport Auto Magazine in Germany. Sport Auto Magazine provides the most consistent and objective measurement of lap times around the Nurburgring, allowing accurate comparisons between different vehicles.

• In both timed lap sessions at the Nurburgring, chief test driver and professional racing driver, Toshio Suzuki was at the wheel. Suzuki has been the chief test driver on the GT-R program throughout the vehicle’s development.

Tyres

The GT-R offers two different tyre choices for customers:
• Bridgestone POTENZA RE070R
• Dunlop SP SPORT 600 DSST CTT

• For the tests conducted at the Nurburgring where the lap times of 7:38 and 7:29 were recorded, the Dunlop tyres were used. The tyres – which are designed for high performance driving in the dry and wet - used in the tests were identical to the production specification tires available to GT-R customers.

• In June, 2008 Dunlop Japan issued a press release announcing that their tires had been used by Nissan to record the 7:29 lap time. The release can be accessed in Japanese and English at:
NISSAN GT-R‚É‘•’…‚³‚ꂽƒ_ƒ“ƒ�ƒbƒv‚Ì�‚�«”\ƒ‰ƒ“ƒtƒ‰ƒbƒgƒ^ƒCƒ„ �uSP SPORT 600 DSST CTT�v‚ªƒjƒ…ƒ‹ƒuƒ‹ƒNƒŠƒ“ƒNƒT�[ƒLƒbƒg‚Å7•ª30•b‚Ì•Ç‚ð”j‚é
http://www3.srigroup.co.jp/CACHE/new...bj144_2008.cfm

• For any media interested in seeing the actual tyres used at the test (7:29 lap time), they should contact the Public Relations Department at Sumitomo Rubber Industries, Ltd. in Japan. The contact email is t-hashimoto.by@srigroup.co.jp or +81 3 5546 0113

Driving the GT-R

• Consistent with industry benchmarking practices, we are aware that several auto makers have purchased the GT-R for their own testing and evaluation. Like all GT-R customers, we recommend that any auto maker buying a GT-R should follow the recommended run-in procedures, service schedules and maintenance to ensure the maximum performance from their car.

• In addition, we offer performance driving courses for prospective and current GT-R owners to help them get the best performance from their car. We would welcome the opportunity to help any auto manufacturer with understanding the full capabilities of the GT-R.

Remarks

From Kazutoshi Mizuno, Chief Vehicle Engineer and Chief Product Specialist for GT-R:

“We have used circuits like the Nurburgring and Sendai extensively during the development of the GT-R. The fastest lap-time was never the objective but a simple parameter for us to measure the GT-R in a consistent way against other world class supercars.”

“Testing a car with specialized parts such as unique tires or suspension has no meaning for us. The GT-R was designed from the start to be a supercar that could be driven anywhere, anytime and by anyone. For us, testing the car in standard production specification is far more relevant than creating a one-off vehicle that our customers cannot buy.”


Conclusion

Due to the weather conditions at the Nurburgring, testing has now stopped and will resume around April 2009. Nissan will be back at the Nurburgring testing both the standard GT-R and upcoming additional models. We look forward to welcoming more members of the media to join us for these test sessions, consistent with our transparency at previous test sessions."

[WoREoD]

I particularly like the paragraph....

"• In addition, we offer performance driving courses for prospective and current GT-R owners to help them get the best performance from their car. We would welcome the opportunity to help any auto manufacturer with understanding the full capabilities of the GT-R."

Tee-hee!

[OllieMeff]

Originally Posted by WoREoD

Nissan will be back at the Nurburgring testing both the standard GT-R and upcoming additional models. "

Nice!!!!! additional modelS

[diddy_p]

HAHA the below is very nice! as is the invitations to have the competitor owned gtrs serviced etc.

"In addition, we offer performance driving courses for prospective and current GT-R owners to help them get the best performance from their car. We would welcome the opportunity to help any auto manufacturer with understanding the full capabilities of the GT-R."