Porsche accuses Nissan of cheating at 'Ring

[axolotl]

"Tyres

The GT-R offers two different tyre choices for customers:
• Bridgestone POTENZA RE070R
• Dunlop SP SPORT 600 DSST CTT

• For the tests conducted at the Nurburgring where the lap times of 7:38 and 7:29 were recorded, the Dunlop tyres were used. The tyres – which are designed for high performance driving in the dry and wet - used in the tests were identical to the production specification tires available to GT-R customers."


ok, thanks, Nissan...I'll have the Dunlops please....come on NMGB, you know it makes sense! This isn't because I think I can do 7 and a half minutes round the Nurburgring...this isn't going to happen as a) i'm not going to track my car and b)whatever tyres I had i think i'd be doing well if I managed to get down to 9 minutes...it's just because i understand the dunlops are safer in the wet (yes, even the summer dunlops) and because they don't understeer as much.

[Paul_G]

Are they runflat?

[axolotl]

they are indeed runflat. the UK press car (the one that the stig drove and all the magazines have tested) wears them. and the spec list on 2009 Nissan GT-R - Official Global Site used to list them next to the bridgestones implying an option....they've been removed from there but if you look at the bottom of the page they've left the bit on about dunlop registered trade mark. they are available as original equipment in some countries but not here. we are told that this is because they wear out too quickly but couldn't we be presented with that info and allowed to make the choice ourselves between dunlop and bridgestone as a no cost option?

[thb_da_one]

Originally Posted by Paul_G

Are they runflat?

They are both runflat.

[trondhla]

I think I have found the best answer to this discussion and that is a quote from chief engineer Kazutoshi Mizuno who said the follwoing when the GT-R was let loose on the journalists:

Earlier, Mizuno-san had offered some lap times from the Nordschliefe for various cars driven by the German magazine SportAuto. Those times are driver-dependent, track-knowledge-dependent, weather-, traffic- and bunny-crossing-the-track dependent. But Mizuno suggested the GT-R could get anywhere from 7:44 on up, with most laps coming in between 7:55 and 7:58. So he suggested the GT-R’s strong suit was that it offered “the best cost per lap time.” For whatever that’s worth.

2009 Nissan GT-R - AutoWeek Magazine

He is spot on Mizuno-san, normal drivers including chassis engineers whose payroll comes from Porsche AG will achieve ca 7:50 + on the 'Ring. Also if and they can manage 7:32 with a 911 Turbo. Only highly skilled drivers with racing experience and extensive GT-R traing can do better.

In anyway, this discussion has as you may expect also been fired loose on 6speedonline and boy they are offended by the GT-R. If you have some time over no less than 17 pages (as of writing) GT-R bashing:
997 TT beats GT-R at Ring. Nissan accused of cheating. - 6speedonline.com Forums
How far can you go in order to save your own selfesteem

[Philip]

I see that "heavychevy" troll hasn't found a girlfriend yet ...

Phil

[skyline69_uk]

Still Not Convinced? Nissan Reveals Second GT-R 'Ring Video...

Still Not Convinced? Nissan Reveals Second GT-R 'Ring Video

[bonzelite]

Originally Posted by skyline69_uk

Still Not Convinced? Nissan Reveals Second GT-R 'Ring Video...

Still Not Convinced? Nissan Reveals Second GT-R 'Ring Video

ahahahahahahahahahaha

ahahahahhahahahahahahahhaa

[skyline69_uk]

I laughed as well. It looks for all the world like Nissan let the issue brew until it was major news then just released the video at the time it would make Porsche look the most like idiots - good marketing to say the least. The fact that Porsche didn't even follow the maintenance or servicing correctly shows what a load of crap the whole thing was.

[bonzelite]

And nobody at Porsche has ever, nor ever will, drive the R35 thousands of times around the Nurburgring as Suzuki-san has done. So they will never attain 7:29 with such lack of seat time.

The issue is not only stupid, but a grand faux pas for Porsche as they have only raised Nissan's profile to beyond their own.

[skyline69_uk]

Originally Posted by bonzelite

The issue is not only stupid, but a grand faux pas for Porsche as they have only raised Nissan's profile to beyond their own.

Agreed.

[skyline69_uk]

Does this mean TG will be trying this?...



Porsche vs Nissan news - Get in the 'Ring - 2008 - BBC Top Gear


Get in the 'Ring
Nissan has responded angrily to Porsche’s claims that it faked its astonishing GT-R Nurburgring lap time, and has suggested that Porsche’s test drivers need to ‘get a bit quicker’.

Back in May, Nissan reported that its production GT-R had lapped the Nurburgring Nordschleife in an near-unbelievable 7m29s in the hands of its test driver Tochio Suzuki: a full three seconds quicker than a Porsche GT2, and one of the fastest-ever production times on the ‘Ring.

Despite video evidence, Porsche was sceptical, and last month claimed that Nissan posted the quicker times because the GT-R was running semi-slick race tyres. Which would mean it wasn’t production-spec.

In fact, Porsche went as far as buying a US-spec GT-R – worth $77,000 – and shipping it out to the ‘Ring along with a 911 Turbo and a 911 GT2. In the hands of a Porsche test driver, the GT-R posted a time of 7m 54s, with the Turbo clocking 7m38s and the GT2 managing 7m34s.

Nissan’s top brass are rather cheesed off that Porsche’s top brass are calling them fibbers, and have emphatically stated that the GT-R was on production rubber.

Nissan’s European spokesman Neil Reeve said in Paris that they were at a loss to explain why Porsche couldn’t replicate Nissan’s own lap time.

He said that Nissan was ‘flattered’ that Porsche had bought themselves a GT-R and flown it to Germany, but reaffirmed that the GT-R has beaten the 911 Turbo in a number of independent tests.

And Nissan has also released a photo of the actual tyres used for the test, plus a second Nurburgring video as evidence of its claims. Even better, Nissan has offered free training for the Porsche test drivers if they want to attempt another lap in the GT-R.

Reckon we’ve heard the last of this? Us neither. There’s only one way to settle this.

The Stig.

Enough said

[bonzelite]

Originally Posted by skyline69_uk

Does this mean TG will be trying this?...



Porsche vs Nissan news - Get in the 'Ring - 2008 - BBC Top Gear


Get in the 'Ring
Nissan has responded angrily to Porsche’s claims that it faked its astonishing GT-R Nurburgring lap time, and has suggested that Porsche’s test drivers need to ‘get a bit quicker’.

Back in May, Nissan reported that its production GT-R had lapped the Nurburgring Nordschleife in an near-unbelievable 7m29s in the hands of its test driver Tochio Suzuki: a full three seconds quicker than a Porsche GT2, and one of the fastest-ever production times on the ‘Ring.

Despite video evidence, Porsche was sceptical, and last month claimed that Nissan posted the quicker times because the GT-R was running semi-slick race tyres. Which would mean it wasn’t production-spec.

In fact, Porsche went as far as buying a US-spec GT-R – worth $77,000 – and shipping it out to the ‘Ring along with a 911 Turbo and a 911 GT2. In the hands of a Porsche test driver, the GT-R posted a time of 7m 54s, with the Turbo clocking 7m38s and the GT2 managing 7m34s.

Nissan’s top brass are rather cheesed off that Porsche’s top brass are calling them fibbers, and have emphatically stated that the GT-R was on production rubber.

Nissan’s European spokesman Neil Reeve said in Paris that they were at a loss to explain why Porsche couldn’t replicate Nissan’s own lap time.

He said that Nissan was ‘flattered’ that Porsche had bought themselves a GT-R and flown it to Germany, but reaffirmed that the GT-R has beaten the 911 Turbo in a number of independent tests.

And Nissan has also released a photo of the actual tyres used for the test, plus a second Nurburgring video as evidence of its claims. Even better, Nissan has offered free training for the Porsche test drivers if they want to attempt another lap in the GT-R.

Reckon we’ve heard the last of this? Us neither. There’s only one way to settle this.

The Stig.

Enough said

I love how Nissan offers to help train Porsche drivers!!!

[moleman]

I was nosing around DR just now and found this posted by Richard Meaden...

I'm enjoying the increasingly petty exchange between Porsche and Nissan. It's easy to say that lap times don't really mean a great deal, but you only have to have done a bit of indoor karting with your mates to know that lap times actually mean EVERYTHING to those involved in setting them! Surely the Ring is no different in this respect.
Whichever way you look at it you'd have to say it's a win-win for Nissan whether the times were legit or not, as the boys from Porsche are clearly irked by the GT-R. But then so they should be, given we are all talking about GT2 and GT-R in the same breath. Whatever you think of the lap times nobody should forget that the GT-R is priced to rival the Carrera and Carrera S, yet can happily slug it out with a GT2. That's an awesome achievement.
Okay, so given a limitless budget I'd have a GT2 over a GT-R, but if I really did have a limitless budget then I'd have a Carrera GT over a GT2 just because I could...
Perhaps more significantly (especially given my well documented love of the 911) given a genuine £50-60k budget for a new car I would pick a GT-R over the new 997 Carrera S.

[Swiss Frank]

Originally Posted by Fuggles

... any well respecting German driver with countless years experience of driving a rear engined car could get used to even before he's had time to chomp his way though his weiner schnitzel.

Germans don't eat Wienerschnitzel, thats Austrians. (Wien = Vienna in English)