Porsche accuses Nissan of cheating at 'Ring

[gtrlux]

Originally Posted by Yakozan

I think that GTRlux means that Nissan is so much bigger than just cars. they have alot of other companies under their umbrella they can use to develop parts and get them for good prices.

Nissan Automotive use suppliers just like Porsche. But they have alot of sister companies which they can use for discounted prices unlike Porsche who needs to use alot of "outside" companies.

This is what I thik grlux means
Didn't know Nissan was so big. I know Toyota and Mitsubishi are.

It's about that. There could be 1000Nissan and 1000variations of the GTR , as you can switch and rely on an evolving japanese industry that grows through standardisation of hightech and new techologies. Same for the hybrid cars from Toyota which rely simply on the advanced hightech market of hybrid engines allready availble before Toyota even thinks about making the Prius. They just pic out from the mass production what thay can use and then order it the way they want it . . . .not the way around.(IS-F anybody?)

Back to topic
I have a few questions:

1) Did Nissan not test a JDM R35 GTR and set the record? I mean they would certainly not have used the gasoil stand next to the ring to test a car that is ment to run high quality japanese gasoil?
2) Porsche used a US GTR . .ohh they are allready on sale and every one has got one and the US GTR is exactly the same as the JDM GTR tested with the record lap (plus same tires of course) . . .or not?
3) Mickey Mouse has made 567687669laps on the ring with his Golf1, but does that make him the same person then this one:

Tochio Suzuki - the chief test driver on the GT-R program pounded thousands of laps - he got to know every inch of Nurburgring (circuit) and how the car performs on the Nurburgring and hence set that fabulous lap.

4) If I buy two R35s and a 350Z for the price of a GT2, does that make me 2,5 times quicker then the GT2?

[Fuggles]

Originally Posted by gtrlux

...... The GTR is not a Nissan achievement , it's a japanese mosaic of hightech suppliers that can offer hightech parts and production efficiency to Nissan

Except that all the initial design work was done in the UK and much of the later design work was done in various countries but most notably Japan and the UK.

[gtrlux]

Originally Posted by Fuggles

Except that all the initial design work was done in the UK and much of the later design work was done in various countries but most notably Japan and the UK.

Right John, I only point out production and how the japanese allways manage to produce a hightech leading product for the 1/3 of the price of the west. Design and research has allways been carried out for most japanese products (not only cars )out side of japan . . . it's a mass production industry that can standarize, reliable and cheap , products that the west may have created in first place , but was unable to produce in any reliable ,profitable form . (Rotary engine, hybrid engine, Vtec-engine, Turbo systhems ex . . . )

Of course as John says the new GTR is not really a pure traditional japanese production concept . . . much has changed since Carlos took over Nissan, which is nothing to regret.

Best combination of two business worlds?

[monaroCountry]

Nissan GTR's, the Nurburgring and suspiciously rapid lap times go way back, the first eyebrows having been raised when the R33 GT-R somehow broke eight minutes in standard trim in the mid 1990s.

We know now, of course, that the car in question was fitted with a set of tyres tht could have stuck it to the side of the Eiffel Tower when it set its lap time, and that I'm REASONABLY CERTAIN THEY'VE BEEN AT IT GAIN WITH THE LATEST GT-R'S "RECORD BREAKING" 7MIN 29SEC LAP......

More than that, I've driven the lastest GT-R and although it is quick with capital F, I've also driven the new Porsche 911 GT2 (the car hose record the GT-R has supposedly just beaten) and I'M CERTAIN THAT - IN STNDARD TUNE AND ON FACTORY-FIT TYRES - IT WOULD BE QUICKER THAN THE GT-R AROUND THE 'RING.

[axolotl]

if you read sutcliffe's more recent review in autocar. i think you'll find his opinion has changed. the nmgb press car on factory tyres soundly thrashed the gallardo 560-4 at the isle of man. i don't believe the press car has been tweaked.....even if nissan had wanted to do so which i doubt very much, they would have known it was too risky as it is so easy these days to test cars outputs especially since they know the magazine has already aired suspicions about it.

[axolotl]

Autocar Videos - Autocar.co.uk

[axolotl]

wouldn't you think if nissan was trying to cheat the first thing they would have done is removed the JDM spec speed limiter?

[kismetcapitan]

something that hasn't yet been mentioned is that, if I remember correctly, the USDM car is DETUNED to 450bhp to deal with lower grade US pump fuel. Not exactly then a fair comparison then is it.

[R33_GTS-t]

Originally Posted by kismetcapitan

something that hasn't yet been mentioned is that, if I remember correctly, the USDM car is DETUNED to 450bhp to deal with lower grade US pump fuel. Not exactly then a fair comparison then is it.

Nope, it's marginally less powerful than the JDM car but still over the rated output.

The truth is that Sport Auto and indeed Porsche are crap at driving anything other than Porsches. Hence why Sport Auto went slower on the 'ring in a Scuderia than a GT2. They can't drive anything except Porsches... not well anyway:

[TheDefiantOne]

Porsche have allowed their design and engineering to be driven by accountants for years now and they seem genuinely bitter that another company has approached the problem of designing an affordable sports car in a revolutionary way with astounding results.

I've never found the 911 desirable. It's too bland and safe for my tastes and while its design is limited by its legacy I'll never buy one.

Grow up Porsche and get revenge at Nissan by designing better cars.

Evolution? Pah.

[obzi]

Coincidentally, my wife is often telling me off for trying it on around the ring!

[Howsie]

Originally Posted by obzi

Coincidentally, my wife is often telling me off for trying it on around the ring!

Get a new wife.

[gtrlux]

Originally Posted by TheDefiantOne

Porsche have allowed their design and engineering to be driven by accountants for years now and they seem genuinely bitter that another company has approached the problem of designing an affordable sports car in a revolutionary way with astounding results.

.

I am sorry but it is not only now that the japanese come with a revolutionary car to rival Porsche and Ferrari, the two big names amongst super performance cars for the last 40 years. The japanese allways limited them selves to 280HP and allways tried to offre performance cars for the avarage japanese salary man since back in the 80. I mean the Supra, GTR, NSX, RX7, GTO and Evos could have had at least 400+HP back then, and blowing the competition to the oblivion . . . BMW, Audi, Porsche up to Ferrari can only be happy that the japanese makers restricted them selves to their ultra conservative-safty oriented home market in the last 20years . . . which is about to change. And very soon the western performance car market will know how much the western consumers have changed, new generations, who haven't grown up with Quattro, Countach, Testarosso and Samantha Fox posters . . .but with posters of Initial D, Skyline GTR, GranT. and Bangbros . . . . times are changing.

[R33_GTS-t]

Where do Bangbros come into this lux?

[gtrlux]

Originally Posted by R33_GTS-t

Where do Bangbros come into this lux?

I tried to find a 2008 equivalent of the 80. Samantha Fox stuff. . . . . basicly in 2008 no 14year old boy gets hot with a pair of tits on a poster anymore , as bangbros is their first link in the web favorites . . .

sorry. . .off topic



(ohh and BB do sell posters . . .)