they're taking my engine apart again!!!!! - GT-R Register - Official Nissan Skyline and GTR Owners Club forum

kismetcapitan · 8th October 2008, 10:19 AM

after some discussion and having my engine builder study the engine, he decided that he wanted to take it apart....again!

The engine is actually fine. It runs, smoothly, and I've completed road mapping to 1.8 bar boost, 9000rpm.

But there's a ticking sound that sounds like the valvetrain. It's not.

My builder says he made a mistake. When my piston wrist pins were fabricated, they were undersized by 0.001mm. And it was fine....but only when the pistons are cold. These obviously are not the first forged pistons he's seen in his life, but they are the first HKS pistons he's used. And I guess they expand a lot when they heat up, maybe more so than other brands of pistons he's used in the past. In short, the wrist pins are undersized and are fine when cold, but start to click as the piston expands and the hole also expands, more than he expected.

He bowed, apologized and said he would fix it as soon as possible. Which means taking apart the engine AGAIN.

I shouldn't be angry, I'm not paying anything but time. I guess he just really likes taking apart and assembling engines

The power steering system will be modified as the engine is out, all coolant hoses will be replaced (two of them had spring pinhole leaks) and then the car should then be 100% sorted. I am praying mightily that this will really be the case!!

Of other interest, he has a preproduction Hyundai Genesis Coupe, and is developing a supercharger kit for when the car is released in Korea next month. The car is running massive Brembo brakes, and although they're in the initial stages of fabricating the ducting and whatnot, they figure they can pull out over 400bhp (hoping for 450) from the 3.8 liter V6. I found it interesting because surely, Japanese tuning houses got preproduction R35s well before the official release date. This is the first RWD sports coupe ever made in Korea, and although it won't match up with anything hardcore, it should be a pretty good gran turismo car - comfy on the inside, 300 stock horsepower. It was cool not only seeing the car before release, but seeing it being tuned for more power.

There are Hyundai Tiburons running 550bhp on the streets in Korea, but they're front wheel drive - the torque steer on those cars when they run is frightening! It's the first real proper sporting coupe, and 450 supercharged hp should be able to leave some seriously smoky-ass burnouts

anyways....I just want my car in my garage. I had to take the bus home....

Stachi · 8th October 2008, 10:37 AM

lol... Some threadholes will become fcuked up if you further take it apart at that rate

2 times a month?

But better now then never, or if it's to late..

Marc

kismetcapitan · 8th October 2008, 10:57 AM

that's what I thought...the bolts and nuts holding the engine together can't be happy being torqued and untorqued every 500km

but the idea is, this should be the last time, for a very long time. I paid this builder to build me an engine that I won't have to crack open for at least 50,000km. I guess he's really trying to deliver on that promise!

Eikichi · 8th October 2008, 11:01 AM

Ever thought of replacing the whole engine with a new one instead of keep fixing this one?
I'm sure it's proper cursed, get a monk or priest to bless it before the rebuild

I got my old gts25t blessed by a Buddhist monk when I went back to France 2 years ago, never had any pbm with it

Hopefully it'll work properly for you now

kismetcapitan · 8th October 2008, 11:50 AM

every time I've rebuilt the engine, either the head or the block got replaced. So the only original engine parts from when I bought the car are....the radiator fan and the ignition amp

Both the car has been blessed and "exorcism" papers, meant to ward off evil spirits, have been placed in my car. In addition, another packet of "lucky papers" as my wife calls them, is taped to my drivers license. I am Zen Buddhist, not a traditional one, so it's all hokey-pokey hooey baloney to me, but I figure it sure can't hurt!!

Plus...I got pulled over today for driving in the bus/carpool lane. The cops quickly found my plate "modifications" (front folding plate, rear highly obscured by various translucent paints). I should have been cashiered right then and there - five grand fine for illegally altering plates. I just got a warning to "clean" the rear plate and "fix" the "broken" front plate bracket....so I guess them lucky papers work

kismetcapitan · 8th October 2008, 01:34 PM

ooh! and we've figured out a way to get my tension rod brace installed. It'll require some cutting and welding, but I'll be very happy to have that brace back in - it's a really killer addition and I love how my steering feels with it installed.

cokey · 8th October 2008, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kismetcapitan

ooh! and we've figured out a way to get my tension rod brace installed. It'll require some cutting and welding, but I'll be very happy to have that brace back in - it's a really killer addition and I love how my steering feels with it installed.

Keep me posted on this Toby,as I'd like one that clears my sump.

cokey

Madden · 8th October 2008, 06:04 PM

Your builder must be so bored

Cant believe its coming apart again. Good luck mate and i hope he finds what he is looking for.

andy42uk · 8th October 2008, 06:36 PM

I can't believe it!
Ok yes I can, it's Toby.
I'm on the doubters side I'm afraid, these are so not a complex engine, there's no way you should have this many problems, I've built 5!!! RB's since owning Skylines, 1st time fix every time, the worst thing was on one not doing the front pulley up tight enough causing the woodruff-key to enlarge the slot on the crank, and it 'clicking' on deceleration, made a custom key and done it up tight, no problem.
I'm worried for you, I hope it turns out ok, but the stress on all the fixings must be taking a toll on things.
Good luck, I'd be thinking if it's coming out (the engine) of starting again fresh.

pupsi · 8th October 2008, 07:29 PM

Toby make sure its done right this time, keep looking over the builders shoulder!

kismetcapitan · 8th October 2008, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madden

Your builder must be so bored

Cant believe its coming apart again. Good luck mate and i hope he finds what he is looking for.

he takes extensive notes and photos on every clearance when he builds an engine. when he reviewed them, he spotted his mistake and was certain that was the issue even before he started in with stethoscopes. I had the HKS piston spec sheet that came with my piston kit but never gave it to him - I had assumed the dimensions were the same as stock. They are not. Whe he looked up the HKS piston specs, he found that HKS supplies a slightly thicker wrist pin, apparently to compensate for expansion when hot. We didn't use the HKS wrist pins, he fabricated bespoke pins because when cold, the pistons are fairly stiff and don't rotate well on the pins. He thought it was a runout problem, so he made and balanced his own set of pins.

I don't know if he'll cut a new set of pins, or balance the HKS pins we didn't reuse. I'd think the latter makes sense, but he had measured runout on three of the six pistons. Maybe that runout was within HKS manufacturing specs, because the degree of runout was SMALL. But he didn't like it. He may also feel undue pressure because he knows I'm extremely picky and know what I'm looking at when I visit the shop, and also because I paid well (by Korean standards, if I told you what the labor cost was, you'd all likely cry a river compared to what you have to pay in the UK!) expecting top-notch work.

Should have the car back within days - they don't have any other projects going at this time other than the Hyundai Genesis supercharger design. I guess my timing was right - they built and dinished three Gemballa Porsches for a show last Saturday - Gemballa Korea imports bodykits and engine kits, but they're installed locally. So they were really busy all last month.

Boosted · 9th October 2008, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kismetcapitan

I guess he just really likes taking apart and assembling engines

That, or the fact that he doesn't really know what he's doing in the first place. Or, he has no prior knowledge of the RB motor, and is using your lump as 'Work Experience'.

Perhaps he's used to working on crappy little SOHC motors, or lawnmowers?

From what I've read so far, he isn't the 'build it properly the first time' type of mechanic. But at least he didn't break any rings when fitting them to the pistons, or get the cam timing wrong

kismetcapitan · 9th October 2008, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cokey

Keep me posted on this Toby,as I'd like one that clears my sump.

cokey

I'm going to have him add an extra "crash bar" so not only will the brace reinforce the subframe, but protect the drain plug as well. When it's done I'll definitely post pics!

kismetcapitan · 9th October 2008, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boosted

That, or the fact that he doesn't really know what he's doing in the first place. Or, he has no prior knowledge of the RB motor, and is using your lump as 'Work Experience'.

Perhaps he's used to working on crappy little SOHC motors, or lawnmowers?

From what I've read so far, he isn't the 'build it properly the first time' type of mechanic. But at least he didn't break any rings when fitting them to the pistons, or get the cam timing wrong

He's just very picky, and there is a language barrier that has caused some miscommunication in what I wanted. The idler bolt failure was just bad luck. When the engine came apart that time, he could have caught the piston pin issue, but I was unable to clearly express myself about the sound I was hearing. So I had everything translated in writing, and brought a simultaneous interpreter when i visited the garage.

I picked him because he builds the Altezza engines for the championship winning KGTC team. They run two Altezzas, one with the inline 4, the other with the inline 6. As I mentioned he just built three Porsches from Gemballa kits. That doesn't mean anything in and of itself, but he certainly knows his way around exotic engines. He built an R34, which is how I found out about him, so this is at least his second major RB26 build. He mostly does 996/997 Turbos and supercharged VQ35 builds however.

Boosted · 9th October 2008, 06:42 AM

That's fair enough, but why didn't he measure all the clearances between piston and pin beforehand?

Actually, I would have thought/hoped/expected that he would have measured every single component and made sure it was all spot on before any rebuild was commenced anyway. After all, if he builds race engines then all that is second nature, surely.

Also, if he has made that mistake, what other gremlins are potentially lurking about?

8th October 2008, 10:19 AM	#1 (permalink)
kismetcapitan GTR Register Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Seoul Korea Posts: 6,300	they're taking my engine apart again!!!!! after some discussion and having my engine builder study the engine, he decided that he wanted to take it apart....again! The engine is actually fine. It runs, smoothly, and I've completed road mapping to 1.8 bar boost, 9000rpm. But there's a ticking sound that sounds like the valvetrain. It's not. My builder says he made a mistake. When my piston wrist pins were fabricated, they were undersized by 0.001mm. And it was fine....but only when the pistons are cold. These obviously are not the first forged pistons he's seen in his life, but they are the first HKS pistons he's used. And I guess they expand a lot when they heat up, maybe more so than other brands of pistons he's used in the past. In short, the wrist pins are undersized and are fine when cold, but start to click as the piston expands and the hole also expands, more than he expected. He bowed, apologized and said he would fix it as soon as possible. Which means taking apart the engine AGAIN. I shouldn't be angry, I'm not paying anything but time. I guess he just really likes taking apart and assembling engines The power steering system will be modified as the engine is out, all coolant hoses will be replaced (two of them had spring pinhole leaks) and then the car should then be 100% sorted. I am praying mightily that this will really be the case!! Of other interest, he has a preproduction Hyundai Genesis Coupe, and is developing a supercharger kit for when the car is released in Korea next month. The car is running massive Brembo brakes, and although they're in the initial stages of fabricating the ducting and whatnot, they figure they can pull out over 400bhp (hoping for 450) from the 3.8 liter V6. I found it interesting because surely, Japanese tuning houses got preproduction R35s well before the official release date. This is the first RWD sports coupe ever made in Korea, and although it won't match up with anything hardcore, it should be a pretty good gran turismo car - comfy on the inside, 300 stock horsepower. It was cool not only seeing the car before release, but seeing it being tuned for more power. There are Hyundai Tiburons running 550bhp on the streets in Korea, but they're front wheel drive - the torque steer on those cars when they run is frightening! It's the first real proper sporting coupe, and 450 supercharged hp should be able to leave some seriously smoky-ass burnouts anyways....I just want my car in my garage. I had to take the bus home.... Last edited by kismetcapitan; 8th October 2008 at 10:28 AM.

8th October 2008, 10:37 AM	#2 (permalink)
Stachi GTROC Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Near Stuttgart, Germany Posts: 769	lol... Some threadholes will become fcuked up if you further take it apart at that rate 2 times a month? But better now then never, or if it's to late.. Marc __________________ ---

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes	Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode	Rate This Thread:

8th October 2008, 10:57 AM	#3 (permalink)
kismetcapitan GTR Register Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Seoul Korea Posts: 6,300	that's what I thought...the bolts and nuts holding the engine together can't be happy being torqued and untorqued every 500km but the idea is, this should be the last time, for a very long time. I paid this builder to build me an engine that I won't have to crack open for at least 50,000km. I guess he's really trying to deliver on that promise!

8th October 2008, 11:01 AM	#4 (permalink)
Eikichi GTR Register Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: UK & France Posts: 2,243	Ever thought of replacing the whole engine with a new one instead of keep fixing this one? I'm sure it's proper cursed, get a monk or priest to bless it before the rebuild I got my old gts25t blessed by a Buddhist monk when I went back to France 2 years ago, never had any pbm with it Hopefully it'll work properly for you now

8th October 2008, 11:50 AM	#5 (permalink)
kismetcapitan GTR Register Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Seoul Korea Posts: 6,300	every time I've rebuilt the engine, either the head or the block got replaced. So the only original engine parts from when I bought the car are....the radiator fan and the ignition amp Both the car has been blessed and "exorcism" papers, meant to ward off evil spirits, have been placed in my car. In addition, another packet of "lucky papers" as my wife calls them, is taped to my drivers license. I am Zen Buddhist, not a traditional one, so it's all hokey-pokey hooey baloney to me, but I figure it sure can't hurt!! Plus...I got pulled over today for driving in the bus/carpool lane. The cops quickly found my plate "modifications" (front folding plate, rear highly obscured by various translucent paints). I should have been cashiered right then and there - five grand fine for illegally altering plates. I just got a warning to "clean" the rear plate and "fix" the "broken" front plate bracket....so I guess them lucky papers work

8th October 2008, 01:34 PM	#6 (permalink)
kismetcapitan GTR Register Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Seoul Korea Posts: 6,300	ooh! and we've figured out a way to get my tension rod brace installed. It'll require some cutting and welding, but I'll be very happy to have that brace back in - it's a really killer addition and I love how my steering feels with it installed.

8th October 2008, 06:04 PM	#8 (permalink)
Madden New Users Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Berkshire Posts: 2,054	Your builder must be so bored Cant believe its coming apart again. Good luck mate and i hope he finds what he is looking for.

8th October 2008, 06:36 PM	#9 (permalink)
andy42uk GTR Register Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Oxford Posts: 846	I can't believe it! Ok yes I can, it's Toby. I'm on the doubters side I'm afraid, these are so not a complex engine, there's no way you should have this many problems, I've built 5!!! RB's since owning Skylines, 1st time fix every time, the worst thing was on one not doing the front pulley up tight enough causing the woodruff-key to enlarge the slot on the crank, and it 'clicking' on deceleration, made a custom key and done it up tight, no problem. I'm worried for you, I hope it turns out ok, but the stress on all the fixings must be taking a toll on things. Good luck, I'd be thinking if it's coming out (the engine) of starting again fresh.

8th October 2008, 07:29 PM	#10 (permalink)
pupsi GTROC Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: West London Posts: 1,904	Toby make sure its done right this time, keep looking over the builders shoulder!

9th October 2008, 06:42 AM	#15 (permalink)
Boosted GTR Register Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 606	That's fair enough, but why didn't he measure all the clearances between piston and pin beforehand? Actually, I would have thought/hoped/expected that he would have measured every single component and made sure it was all spot on before any rebuild was commenced anyway. After all, if he builds race engines then all that is second nature, surely. Also, if he has made that mistake, what other gremlins are potentially lurking about?