0-242 MPH in 1 Mile

[supdawg79]

Originally Posted by bladerider

You await a car with less capacity and a worse drag coefficient to enter a race for top speed ???

As Brucie says,

Keeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep waiting !!

....But I was under the impression that the majority here touted the GT-R as being the most capable all-around car to ever leave Japan? A Supra is not supposed to do the things it's done over the course of it's 15 year run. I still don't understand why the Supra is always glossed over in terms of overall performance when clearly it has set record after record in many categories. No matter what anyone says, a Skyline GT-R and an MKIV Supra are clearly the 2 most over-achieving cars Japan ever produced.

[R33_GTS-t]

Here's the dyno for that tune:

[plumwerks]

Rob,did you notice the stock bottom end and stock drivetrain,is the 2jz really so much stronger than the RB or are RB owners just paranoid and wimpy.

[kaneda]

Originally Posted by Alan

Funny I thought this was a GTR forum, not a supra appreciation club still never mind,

And by the way its spelt HAYABUSA

James............................................. .. Tut Tut

Correction, we're in the Other Marques section of a GT-R Register, meaning we're on the portion of the forum where those who appreciate other cars are free to make thread about said other cars. I made a thread about three extremely quick Supras and you've come in here to talk about Hayabusas. If you want to talk about Hayabusas or other bikes you're free to make your own thread. Don't use my thread ABOUT SUPRAS to do so.

[kaneda]

Originally Posted by plumwerks

Rob,did you notice the stock bottom end and stock drivetrain,is the 2jz really so much stronger than the RB or are RB owners just paranoid and wimpy.

I should mention that Ashik's green Supra lifted the head on it's final run. No damage from what I hear and the car seemed to be fine when it drove by me on the return road. I think they're going to install ARP hardware and reinstall the head.

[roadie]

Completely agree. This thread is about Supras, so it should be kept that way. If I didn't own a gt-r, my next choice would be the Supra hands down.
Besides.....I'm sure 99.9% of us would rather own a 1400hp supra over a 1300cc bike.

[kaneda]

Originally Posted by bladerider

You await a car with less capacity and a worse drag coefficient to enter a race for top speed ???

As Brucie says,

Keeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep waiting !!

I think gearing is a bigger issue than capacity and coefficient of drag. Take an R34 GT-R for example; with a final drive of 3.53, a 275/30/18 tire combo and a 10,000 RPM redline, you'll gear out in 5th at 205 and shifting to 6th will kill acceleration. For one the gear drop is too big and two, the car will slow while you're shifting to 6th.

A Supra on the other hand, will be on the limiter at 232 mph on the same tire and wheel combo at 10,000 RPM because the final drive is 3.13.

Supras have an ideal setup when you look at aerodynamics, gearing, final drive, RPM potential on a built motor and the size of the wheel/tire you can fit in the wheel wells. At the Texas Mile last weekend the fastest Corvette there "only" ran 210 mph (and dyno'd over 1,000 ft-lbs at 3,700 RPM). The fastest Viper hit 199 mph. The fastest Ford GT was in the low 190s. The slowest Supra of the day "only" went 170 mph and 2 of them broke 220 mph. Stefane blew his motor and still hit 199 mph.

[kaneda]

Also, some guy on a riding lawn mower ran 62 mph.

[plumwerks]

Originally Posted by kaneda

Also, some guy on a riding lawn mower ran 62 mph.

Are you kidding me,that is both amazing and hilarious.

[kaneda]

Seriously! It got annoying after a while though because he kept making run after run and was just wasting time for people that were there for a serious effort. He had to get towed back to his pit because he ran out of gas on EVERY run.

[bladerider]

A few pointers,

1. "Stock bottom end" in the good ol US of A seldom means what we call stock over here. They are often just talking about the crank, and usually that has been treated and modified alot but it has not been replaced with a forged or billet item.

2. the Titan 3.4 kit isnt just a set of pistons last time I checked, so no, its not a stock anything !!!

3. The majority here touting the GT-R as the best all rounder are correct. A GT-R can make mincemeat of a supra of a similar build/value/power over a range of disciplines as TOTB has shown year after year, but as has been pretty well documented the 2jz is most probably the stronger engine and can therefore give you more bhp per pound certainly to begin with as you dont need to change internals until well past 6/700bhp.

4. The supra isnt glossed over, its just that they are massive in the US as they were sold there in large numbers and hence have the benefit of the US product makers general tendency for cheaper and more plentiful parts options. Here and in Japan they are considered very high performance but are not necessarily "the weapon of choice" because there are other tools available that are better - GT-R's being chief amongst them !! Yes a Supra is quick on top end as its slippery and powerful, yes with silly tyres they can accelerate fast, but a GT-R can do both of those almost as well without having to change setups in between and then can go to the track and wipe the floor with the Toyota. Its and overall champion rather than a specific discipline type car.

5. Anyone who thinks gearing has more to do with the top speed of a car when we are talking about 200mph+ rather than drag and power is insane. Obviously if you only had one high gear and it went to 190mph or 290mph at max revs it would be useless, but given that you can VERY easily change the gearing on any car through several means it will actually come down to grunt and resistance to that grunt - ie drag coeffiecients. All skylines will be worse than the Supra, and given that we are specifically talking about a 3.4litre Supra it has effectively got 30% more displacement than a standard GT-R. Its still over 13% more than the biggest version of the RB engine you can get - RB30 of whatever kind - so it will definately make that power easier to acheive.

Lastly - the point of the "Other marques" section of ANY car forum is so that people can discuss these things, however its not here so that you guys can try and ram non Skylines/GT-R's down our throats or try to make endless stupid comparisons. If you wanna be a Supdawg so badly just stick to that forum !!

Be well !!

J.

[Alan]

/\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\

What he said

[Boosted]

Some touchy buggers about, eh Alan?

Better not tell him about Jared's bike then, seeing as he just threw all his toys out of his pram

Awwwhh it's 700bhp, and does 257.3mph. That's got to be worth a mention at least


Still, its slower than Frank Gillebaard's Hayabusa, that does 265.4mph


Supra who?

PMSFL

[supdawg79]

Originally Posted by bladerider

A few pointers,

Let's see if I can explain to you what you seem to miss here.

1. Weapon of choice - Hmmm. Such a subjective topic. For one, the U.S. was fortunate enough to receive a special car with the Supra. Don't blame us for playing the hand we were dealt. It would be quite the contrary if only the GT-R would've been released here. Somehow we would've milked the RB to death and have had monster drag cars, monster road race cars, monster 1-mile cars, etc etc...

2. You know little about the MKIV engine to jump to the conclusion that most short blocks are not stock. Keep beating that dead horse all you want, facts speak for themselves.

3. Having stickier tires on a RWD car only levels the playing field since I'm sure an AWD Supra would've made hash out of a GT-R overall. Your logic is flawed, and seriously what do you expect from a RWD car that has stock 9.5" wheels in the rear and all that power potential?

4. The Supra wasn't a 'race car' watered down for the streets. Just a pure sport coupe that just so happened to have been gifted with a nice balance of power, tuning potential, and aerodynamics. GT-R's, Evo's, etc...Now those are purpose-built cars.

5. Just because GT-R parts are more expensive, that doesn't make them any more superior to Supra parts. You dump $30k into each car, and you have a neck-and-neck race any way you slice it. Road race Supra's here could really make their mark if they were taken to Tsukuba or other Japanese tracks. Most Japanese tuning companies prefer GT-R's as their platform of choice because of the many advantages and exclusivity it comes with from the get go.

I am in no way bashing the GT-R as it is a platform I am going to sink my teeth into soon, but here in the good ol' US of A, Supras are holding their own against any and all competition brought forth. I've had 5, and would recommend them time and time again.

Supdawg is just a nickname given to Supras here in America, so don't take that too literally mate.

Oh and by the way,
Give someone here a Skyline GT-R to build for the Texas mile, and I promise you it will go 240mph+ sooner or later.

Cheers

[kaneda]

Originally Posted by bladerider

A few pointers,

1. "Stock bottom end" in the good ol US of A seldom means what we call stock over here. They are often just talking about the crank, and usually that has been treated and modified alot but it has not been replaced with a forged or billet item.

Stock bottom end means stock bottom end. Everything between the OEM Toyota head gasket and the oil pan is 100% OEM Toyota and has not been disassembled, treated, balanced, etc. The shortblock has not been touched.

Originally Posted by bladerider

2. the Titan 3.4 kit isnt just a set of pistons last time I checked, so no, its not a stock anything !!!

Who said the Titan 3.4 motors were just pistons? If I give someone $15,000 for a crate motor it had better have a hell of a lot more than just uprated pistons.

Unless you mean my "stock driveline" comment. I'll clarify, when I say stock drivetrain I mean it's not a Ford 9" rearend and a 4 link suspension, a Powerglide, a tubbed car, or some other such nonsense. I mean it's an IRS car using a Toyota pumpkin with an uprated differential (I think it's a TRD diff), upgraded axles, upgraded driveshaft and an OEM V160 6-Speed with a Tilton clutch.

Originally Posted by bladerider

3. The majority here touting the GT-R as the best all rounder are correct. A GT-R can make mincemeat of a supra of a similar build/value/power over a range of disciplines as TOTB has shown year after year...

Now you're essentially pitting tuning shop/modified car against tuning shop/modified car. Any type of comparison would be highly subjective. You may have better Supra or GT-R shops than we do and vice versa. We could go around in circles all day long pointing out examples of one car beating the other in similar competitions.

Originally Posted by bladerider

...but as has been pretty well documented the 2jz is most probably the stronger engine and can therefore give you more bhp per pound certainly to begin with as you dont need to change internals until well past 6/700bhp.

The 2JZ is stronger but that is mainly because of displacement. If you take into account the nearly half liter displacement advantage and adjust power figures to scale accordingly, the RB26DETT is every bit as powerful as the 2JZ and you can make well over 600-700 rwhp with a stock RB26DETT. SP Engineering, XS Engineering, Full-Race, and a handful of other shops have all done so. AFAIK the current record stateside is over 830 rwhp in an R33 GT-R on a rear drive dyno. The car's owner killed the motor 2 stepping the car with a stock oil pump causing it to fail during a 10 second pass on the drag strip. If it weren't for the pump failure and the owner was allowed to test the motor's absolute limits, I think we would easily have seen a near 1,000 rwhp stock short block (dyno queen) RB26DETT (Not balanced and blue printed internals, not a rebuild, not shotpeened rods and cryo treated pistons, STOCK).

Originally Posted by bladerider

4. The supra isnt glossed over, its just that they are massive in the US as they were sold there in large numbers and hence have the benefit of the US product makers general tendency for cheaper and more plentiful parts options. Here and in Japan they are considered very high performance but are not necessarily "the weapon of choice" because there are other tools available that are better - GT-R's being chief amongst them !! Yes a Supra is quick on top end as its slippery and powerful, yes with silly tyres they can accelerate fast, but a GT-R can do both of those almost as well without having to change setups in between and then can go to the track and wipe the floor with the Toyota. Its and overall champion rather than a specific discipline type car.

I don't live in Japan so I'm not going to pretend I understand why people there build the cars they build or why and how they build them; Although I have heard that the main reason the Supra wasn't popular is because of it's weight, price and the lack of upgrades it had over it's 9 year run. 9 years is a long time to go without any sort of styling or powertrain upgrade.

Originally Posted by bladerider

5. Anyone who thinks gearing has more to do with the top speed of a car when we are talking about 200mph+ rather than drag and power is insane. Obviously if you only had one high gear and it went to 190mph or 290mph at max revs it would be useless, but given that you can VERY easily change the gearing on any car through several means it will actually come down to grunt and resistance to that grunt - ie drag coeffiecients. All skylines will be worse than the Supra, and given that we are specifically talking about a 3.4litre Supra it has effectively got 30% more displacement than a standard GT-R. Its still over 13% more than the biggest version of the RB engine you can get - RB30 of whatever kind - so it will definately make that power easier to acheive.

We're not talking top speed, we're talking about a standing mile competition. All it would really take to level the playing field is 1) for someone to make an equivalent final drive (or swap ratios as you had suggested; although I'd lean towards the proven final drive), 2) for someone to put a big displacement RB in front of said final drive and 3) for someone to commit to building a standing mile prepped Street Class GT-R. The .35 Cd isn't terrible (The LG C6 Z06 TT is well over .35 Cd and still hit 210 mph on a low boost test setup), there are T6 manifolds that will allow a 91+mm turbo, you can mount a decent sized wheel/tire combo on a GT-R, etc., the technology, the experience and the skill are all there, it's just a matter of the "if" and the "when". I for one would love to see a GT-R start making attempts at the record. I don't think there's any technical reason it couldn't be done.

Originally Posted by bladerider

Lastly - the point of the "Other marques" section of ANY car forum is so that people can discuss these things, however its not here so that you guys can try and ram non Skylines/GT-R's down our throats or try to make endless stupid comparisons. If you wanna be a Supdawg so badly just stick to that forum !!

I'm not ramming anything down anyone's throats. Alan comes into my thread which is clearly a thread in appreciation of Japan's "Other" amazing car and attempts to steer attention towards his beloved Suzukis. I don't appreciate being threadjacked. If he wants to talk Hayabusas and turbo bikes I'd rather he chose or created an appropriate thread to do so. I like Supras (in addition to GT-Rs) but that doesn't entitle to me venture into other parts of the forum to "inform" owners/enthusiasts of a (perceived) superior product, does it? No it does not.

I reiterate: Alan, if you want to talk bikes, find or make another thread. It's not that I dislike you or dislike bikes, it's that this is a thread SUPRAS. If you don't like Supras, move to another thread. You have dozens of other sections on this forum and thousands of threads you could be posting in. If you don't like the subject matter of this one, find another that suits you.