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Old 7th July 2009, 01:17 AM   #1 (permalink)
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ignition timing hot or cold ?

could some one please remind me for the setting of the ignition timing as recently i had taken the cam pulley cover off to paint it so have knocked the ignition timing out a small amount .

i thought i read some were a while ago that it was set at 20 deg when warmed up ? is that right or wrong ?

just that i know as the car goes through its warm up process from cold the ignition timing does change .


i have tried a search but not revealed any thing about temperature within the first 6 pages of the search.

cheers any one
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Old 7th July 2009, 03:52 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Your spot on.
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Old 7th July 2009, 04:43 AM   #3 (permalink)
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yup - always when up to operating temp. Also, the loop wire is notoriously unreliable - my turner has a custom ignition lead that goes between the #1 coil and the #1 plug - so he can plug the timing light onto this HT lead and get a true reading. I must get around to making myself one!
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Old 9th July 2009, 12:33 AM   #4 (permalink)
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cheers pupsi and frostmotorsport
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Old 9th July 2009, 12:34 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frostmotorsport View Post
yup - always when up to operating temp. Also, the loop wire is notoriously unreliable - my turner has a custom ignition lead that goes between the #1 coil and the #1 plug - so he can plug the timing light onto this HT lead and get a true reading. I must get around to making myself one!
the timing shows on the hand controller with the power fc so dont need to muck around with the timing gun
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Old 9th July 2009, 02:40 AM   #6 (permalink)
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so.... firstly I meant tuner not turner - doh!

Also, I still assume you need to set the base timing - i.e. position the CAS, which would require a timing light - as the PFC only know's what you've told it.
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Old 10th July 2009, 01:19 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frostmotorsport View Post
so.... firstly I meant tuner not turner - doh!

Also, I still assume you need to set the base timing - i.e. position the CAS, which would require a timing light - as the PFC only know's what you've told it.
even though when i took the cas off , the engine hadnt been moved at all and also just before i removed the cas i marked as close as possible the position of the cas for when i put it back on again .

it should only be marginally out , shouldnt it ?

it only looks like its a few degrees advanced more than before from a general look shortly after start up of the engine .
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Old 10th July 2009, 03:51 AM   #8 (permalink)
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a visual is ok to start the engine, but GTR's are a bit "sensitive" to timing, and if your engine is tuned for more boost/power then I'd definately check base timing with a light. I'd be worried that while those 2 degrees may not do any harm a low revs/off boost, at WOT and full boost and extra 2 degrees could be the difference between having some fun and detting your engine to death!
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Old 11th July 2009, 10:19 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frostmotorsport View Post
a visual is ok to start the engine, but GTR's are a bit "sensitive" to timing, and if your engine is tuned for more boost/power then I'd definately check base timing with a light. I'd be worried that while those 2 degrees may not do any harm a low revs/off boost, at WOT and full boost and extra 2 degrees could be the difference between having some fun and detting your engine to death!
the GTR is only being run on the drive at the moment and wont be on the road till after some more work carried out at RK TUNING including a new remap etc so that wont be a problem at the moment .

wanted to know though would taking the breather system of the rocker covers and going to a new catch tank venting to atmosphere plus removing the aircon system and going to a 120mm thick intercooler from a standard size one , alter the tickover ?

just since ive done all that and removed and put back the cas , no matter how much i try to set the ignition timing to 20 degrees the engine's tickover just wont balance as its a little up and down
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Old 19th July 2010, 03:00 AM   #10 (permalink)
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tried putting a timing gun on it today and o know i got it some were near the 20 deg but with the revs fluctuating its to hard to say what actual figure .

also tried using a ht lead to get the reading but strangely i couldnt get any reading using my draper timing gun


i did read about the loop at the back of the engine as a pick up but also read that its quite unreliable so on the wiring going to coil pack no'1 i pulled back some of the outer black protective coating and were there is the 1 white thick wire and 2 thinner black wires ,i put the inductive pickup on the white wire as that gave the same reading as the 2 black wires together but not all 3 wires together would give a reading.



was hoping it would smooth things out a little but all the changes i made obvioulsy was too much , well just have to wait to the next time it goes to RK , ages and ages and ages lol
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Old 19th July 2010, 11:54 PM   #11 (permalink)
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curious question , on the search i found mixed info about the timing marks on the crank pulley

on my pulley there are 7 marks and on one post some showed the timing had to be set on around the first 2 marks from the left but on other post ive read the 5th mark from the left

could some one clear that up for me please ?

isnt it the 5th from the left being 20 deg as its 0 - 5 - 10 - 15 - 20 - 25 - 30
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Old 20th July 2010, 03:45 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Hi,
yes your absolutely correct. Starting from the 1st mark, 0, it then goes up in increments of 5, so yes the 5th mark would be 20 degrees. Your spot on.
Pupsi.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jaycabs View Post
curious question , on the search i found mixed info about the timing marks on the crank pulley

on my pulley there are 7 marks and on one post some showed the timing had to be set on around the first 2 marks from the left but on other post ive read the 5th mark from the left

could some one clear that up for me please ?

isnt it the 5th from the left being 20 deg as its 0 - 5 - 10 - 15 - 20 - 25 - 30
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Old 20th July 2010, 12:51 PM   #13 (permalink)
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cheers pupsi , much appreciated
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Old 20th July 2010, 09:45 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Maybe the fluctuation on idle is down to an airleak...
Just a thought
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Old 21st July 2010, 12:42 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Maybe the fluctuation on idle is down to an airleak...
Just a thought
i have been thinking about that as im a little uncomfortable with the 1 gasket under the twin turbo pipe and rear pipe gasket , are those the ones called "TURBO ELBOW - DOWNPIPE GASKET" ???

these
SKYLINE GTR R32 R33 R34 TURBO ELBOW - DOWNPIPE GASKET on eBay (end time 27-Jul-10 20:05:49 BST) ?

been a while since ive taken the top pipes off


wouldnt removing the aicon and having the twin turbo pipe with baffle and the larger intercooler plus putting the oil breather on to atmosphere from both rocker covers cause that bad idle ???

especially the oil breather as that changes the air going in to the engine ( more clean ) and would have thought changes air pressures going in too as the left inlet back to the engine from the left rocker ive blocked off and the right one that normally goes back into the rubber piping thats joined to the rear turbo ive blocked off too .

?????

weird thing is if you put it in 1st gear as the cars off the floor when the engine is running as the wheels are turning it hold the rpm fine on its own basically idles ok in gear
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Old 23rd July 2010, 07:27 PM   #16 (permalink)
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an airleak would affect idle only if it were on the intake side. There's a trick to finding airleaks in intake gaskets - you spray something - carb cleaner? WD-40? can't remember exactly what off the top of my head, but if there's a leak, it'll suck in what you're spraking, and the idle will change (surge or stall, again, drawing a blank, but it's 3am and I'm minding the baby so my brain's jello )

what cams, turbos, and ECU are you running? I have a surging idle that only appears during the summertime. When the engine's heat soaked, my wideband runs completely lean and my idle surges. I moved my air intake temp sensor outboard, so it's on the intercooler exit instead of under the hood, but I then had to recalibrate all my air temp tables on my Power FC and I still haven't gotten it dialed in.

Have you tried fiddling with the AAC? A long Phillips screwdriver will gain you access to the idle control screw; this may or may not change the idle character, but it certainly will change *something*.

If the rocker breathers affect idle, it's in some very roundabout matter (such as, the AAC expects to see a certain load on the engine due to crankcase pressure, and when it's not there, it may get confused a bit? something along those lines). But directly speaking, the crankcase, it's gases, and pressure in that part of the engine has nothing to do with the intake mixture. Totally separate thing. The intakes, intercooler, the turbos, the exhaust...that's all about the engine north of the piston rings. Oil returns, and the rocker breathers, that's all about the engine south of the piston rings, where no combustion is taking place, and any rise in pressure is from piston ring leakage (of which there is inevitably always some).

If you have a Power FC, have you tried resetting it (after saving your map with FC Edit) and running the car through the idle self-learning sequence (takes 30 minutes)?

Injector lag times have a very direct effect on idling, but you have to be certain that they don't throw off the rest of your map - the parts where you're actually driving!!

Again, I've learned to just put up with idle fluctuation, but it's not always there, and the degree of fluctuation is never more than a few hundred RPM at its worst. Hot summer days, stuck in traffic, really brings it out. Increasing injector lag times flattens it out...but richens up the rest of the fueling. I don't have stock cams - I've got Poncams, Type B, and the further you get away from stock, the worse the idle gets.
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Old 25th July 2010, 04:07 AM   #17 (permalink)
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the car use to idle quite smoothly before i changed those bits but other wise its still running standard cams with hks 2530's and a pfc with h/controller .

i still thought maybe by changing the quality of the air on idle could affect the idle because of the oil breather system or would that be too fussy thinking ?

lol if only i had the fc edit , complete software nearly $400 isnt it ? haven got that sort of money floating around

is that link on ebay the right gaskets for the lower part of the twin turbo pipe and the rear pipe to that as well ?
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Old 26th July 2010, 02:39 AM   #18 (permalink)
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taken a couple of short vids .



does any of this look out of place on my power fc on the sensor check section with engine running after about ten minutes ?
based on me still having idle problems






this is with out engine running







during all this it did stall once but if the was an air leak some were then why would it smooth out on the idling for that little while ???
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Old 26th July 2010, 02:46 AM   #19 (permalink)
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dont know whats going on but for some reason it wouldnt let me put my 3rd vid on my last post ??? damn odd




heres the other part


after about 20 minutes it starts to idle ok but shortly after goes of again



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Old 27th July 2010, 02:47 AM   #20 (permalink)
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could removing all the recirculation system and blanking it of at each turbo effect the idle ? pressure changes there ?

as before the recirculation system had the 2 turbos linked as standard and now they are not.
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