6,000 Service and Trans/Diff oils - real costs

[Guy]

To follow on from another thread, I need my car servicing as the mileage is near 6,000 and it also requires the the oils changing due to exceeding the 110c threshold regularly on Autoroute/Autobahns and Swiss Mountain Passes.

I have therefore today obtained the following quotes to decide where to take the car. All are for the 6,000 service and the oils for transmission, front and rear differentials.

1. My Supplying HPC (based in the South of England)

£987.06 for the full requirements above.


2. Middlehurst

£750 all-in. A far cheaper quote and far more experienced in working on GTRs.


3. Litchfield Imports

£435 all-in, but to include the larger 18,000 mile service i.e. this includes engine-oil/filters as well.

Critically, for me, using Litchfield does not void the warranty, since they are adhering to the Nissan servicing schedules and using either Original Nissan Parts/fluids or parts/fluid that match or exceed the factory standards.


Given the above, my car is going to Litchfields next week.

[Frenchie]

£435 for al full engine and transmission oil change + servicing is real cheap !!!

Do you know what oil they put in? I don't see them using genuine Nissan oil... or they managed to get some without the "GTR tax"

[Frenchie]

For comparaison, I have been quoted 1173***8364; (£1086) VAT included for the same by my CHP (Bordeaux).

[Guy]

Originally Posted by Frenchie

Do you know what oil they put in? I don't see them using genuine Nissan oil... or they managed to get some without the "GTR tax"

They use an oil that is made specifically for Borg-Warner twin-clutch gearboxes and is a higher specification than Nissans oil (it's been tested).

Remember that there are plenty of twin-clutch gearboxes out there, in various power formats from VW, Porsche, Ferrari, Bugatti, Audi etc. None of these gearboxes use Nissan fluid of course, so someone is making fluid thats ok for 1000bhp in the Bugatti, ok for 120,000 miles intervals in a 911 Carrera and ok for more power/torque than the GTR in the new 7 speed 911 Turbo Twin-Clutch (PDK they call it).

I have also heard from several sources that the Nissan Race Acadamy cars do not use Nissan transmission fluid due to cost, in the same way that they use Pirelli tyres and the brake discs/pads are not Nissan OEM, but Pagid/AP Racing aftermarket.

[axolotl]

It seems to me that there are three factors involved when chosing who will service a car:

1) Will they do the job well and thoroughly including checks as well as changing parts and fluids without causing new problems eg scuffed alloys etc?
2) Will there be any effect on the warranty?
3) Will there be any effect on resale value?

From what I have heard of Litchfield's (good) reputation I don't have worries about (1)
My understanding is that (2) is unlikely to be a problem in view of EU law although it would be interesting to speculate about how it might affect a consideration of statutory rights if a claim is made against nissan after "warranty" has expired.
What do people think about the third issue?

[David.Yu]

So bearing that cost in mind, do you still consider the GT-R an unreasonably expensive car to maintain, Guy?

[paul__k]

I would of thought by now this forum would have got a definitive answer from Mizuno or whoever as to why the Porsche PDK box (ZF I think) oil can last 120,000 miles between changes. Maybe the answer is to use Porsche oil!

Do we know if the 911 Turbo has temperature limits similar to the GTR?



Paul

[ScottyB]

Guy,

Simple question.

Are you comfortable with having a potential fight on your hands with Nissan If and i hope it never happens you have a transmission failure - and Non Nissan fluid was used, regardless if Litchfield use same/better spec that has not been approved by Nissan.

My understanding of the European Law which allows us all to use independants to service our cars and still maintain warranty is that the parts used MUST be the OEM Parts including fluids filters etc, and or Alternatives confirmed by the manufacturer (Nissan have not openly confirmed other products that i am aware of)

Have i got the wrong end of the stick??

It would be an expensive mistake to make to save a few quid if you want to retain your original warranty.

Regards

ScottyB

[Guy]

Originally Posted by David.Yu

So bearing that cost in mind, do you still consider the GT-R an unreasonably expensive car to maintain, Guy?

At Litchfields prices for services and with the tyres now coming in at more sensible prices (£1150 for Bridestones), it looks like a far more sensible cost regime.

[Guy]

Originally Posted by ScottyB

Are you comfortable with having a potential fight on your hands with Nissan If and i hope it never happens you have a transmission failure

Well I'd hope it wouldn't happen, but yes I'd be very comfortable having a big legal battle. I use lawyers in a professional capacity and have paid hundreds of thousands of pounds in fees. I also recently used a lawyer and barrister (£500 per hour) in a case personally involving a car (no details, but I won).

Originally Posted by ScottyB

My understanding of the European Law which allows us all to use independants to service our cars and still maintain warranty is that the parts used MUST be the OEM Parts including fluids filters etc, and or Alternatives confirmed by the manufacturer (Nissan have not openly confirmed other products that i am aware of)

The BER covers service and maintenance during the warranty period and prohibits vehicle manufacturers’ warranties from including conditions requiring that:

· all normal maintenance be provided within the vehicle manufacturer’s network

· all parts used must be the manufacturer’s original spare parts

as per here:

Autosafe

[Guy]

In October 2002 European Union legislation affecting the motor trade came into force. Its full title is 'Block Exemption Regulations 1400/2002' (in short 'BER').


This legislation changes the way cars may be serviced and repaired and gives motorists a lot more freedom in their decision as to who should look after their cars.
Before BER, it was very difficult to have carBefore BER, it was very difficult to have cars which were still covered by the manufacturer's warranty, serviced anywhere except a franchised dealer. Motorists can now use any garage of their choice to service and repair their cars without invalidating the manufacturer's warranty (subject to certain conditions).
The latest revision of the BER introduces frour 'freedoms' that are aimed at safeguarding free competition in the entire market for vehicle spare parts, service and repair. They affect the way in which the parts distributor can act in the market.

1. Freedom for a franchised Dealer and/or an 'Authorised Repairer' to purchase up to 70% of their purchases of 'original spare parts' and 'matching quality' spare parts from independent market operators of their choice. This means... Parts Factors can supply parts of appropriate quality to Dealers and Authorised Repairers without the Vehicle Manufacturer/ Assembler using Dealer/Repairer contracts or other means to prevent them.

2. The freedom for Parts Manufacturers/Suppliers ro sell their original eq2. The freedom for Parts Manufacturers/Suppliers to sell their original equipment (OE) or independent repairers. This means... parts manufacturers can no longer be forced by their OE contract to limit supply of certain parts to the Vehicle Manufacturer/Assembler. The end of the 'tied parts' arrangements.

3. The freedom for Parts Manufacturers/Suppliers to brand their OE parts with their own logo. This means... motorists and garages will be able to identify the Manufacturer of a component when it is removed from a vehicle and source its replacement from any distributor of the part. They will no longer feel that they 'have' to go to a Dealer for a part.

4. An extension to the obligation on vehicle assemblers to pass on technical information to operators in the independent aftermarket. This information includes, for instance:

- Access to electronic systems for controlling the vehicle's operation

- Right of 're-programming' information to correct maladjustment.
This means... anyone with a legitimate need for technical information:
- Parts Manufacturers
- Re-Manufacturers
- Distributors
- Factors
- Garages
- Technical Publishers
- Security Companies will have right of access to it in a usable form and a reasonable cost (the same cost as charged to anyone within the vehicle Assembler's network). The new BER also introduces certain definitions of importance to the independent aftermarket. There is a new definition of 'original spare parts' and 'matching quality parts' that is based on the quality of the component. This definition can be used:

Where parts used are of the same quality as the component used for the assembly of a motor vehicle.

- Where parts used are of the same specifications and production standards as those used by the Vehicle Assemblers.

- Where Parts Manufacturers/Suppliers are able to issue a quality self-certification. The new definition identifies 'original spare parts' in the following ways:

- Parts produced directly by the Vehicle Assembler .
- Components produced by the OE Supplier and branded with the logo(s) of the Vehicle Manufacturer and the Parts Manufacturer/Supplier.
- Technically identical parts produced by the parts supplier, branded with his own logo and sold to the independent aftermarket. Spare parts of 'matching quality' identifies parts in the following way:

- 'Spare parts made by any undertaking which can certify at any moment that the parts in question match the quality of the components which are or were used for the assembly of the motor vehicles in question'. An interesting point is that if the Vehicle Manufacturer himself offers spare parts of differing quality (e.g. an 'economy line') he cannot prohibit its contractual partners (i.e. Dealers and Authorised Repairers) from buying spare parts of the same quality from the independent market. The BER also covers service and maintenance during the warranty period and prohibits vehicle maintenance during the warranty period and prohibits Vehicle Manufacturer's warranties from including conditions requiring that:

- All normal maintenance be provided within the vehicle makers network.

- All parts used must be the Vehicle Assembler's 'original spare parts'. The European Commission declared that such clauses in a warranty document would represent 'an unjustified restriction for the consumer! The Automotive Distribution Federation (ADF) have written confirmation from OFT that Independent repairers can carry out normal maintenance and repair services during a vehicle's warranty period without invalidating the Vehicle Assembler's warranty conditions with two provisos...

- Provided that the service is in accordance with the Vehicle Assembler's servicing schedules and is recorded as such and...

- Provided that the parts used are of 'appropriate quality' and are recorded as such. Don't forget the new BER helps parts distributors, independent garage and motorists. If you need more information on this topic, or if you have any evidence of Vehicle Assemblers or their Dealers infringing these new rules, then contact the ADF office:

68 Coleshill Road,
Hodge Hill,
Birmingham,
B36 8AB
Tel: 0121 784 3535
ADF | The Automotive Distribution Federation

[ramsub]

Originally Posted by Guy

I have therefore today obtained the following quotes to decide where to take the car. All are for the 6,000 service and the oils for transmission, front and rear differentials.

1. My Supplying HPC (based in the South of England)

£987.06 for the full requirements above.


2. Middlehurst

£750 all-in. A far cheaper quote and far more experienced in working on GTRs.

Bought my car from Motorline but went to Middlehurst for my 6,000 mile service as juices needed changing. Juice change (oil, transmission and diff) + labour was just under £600 (incl VAT). Service was another £200 and £75 for post trackday (excl VAT). Motorline were quoting around £1,000 just for the juice change.

Brought this to the attention of Motorline and said that with the free concierge it was no skin off my back to send it up to ST Helens. Got an email back from the service manager to confirm revised pricing at Motorline:

All Fluid changes
Labour GBP 120 + VAT
Mobil 1 (engine oil) GBP 64.63 + vat
Gtr transmission fluid GBP320.00 + vat
Diff Fluid (both) 75w140 GBP47.70 + vat
Washer Drain GBP1.10 + vat
Oil filter GBP7.00 + vat
Sundries (environmental charge) GBP12.95 + vat
Pre-Vat Price GBP 573.38 Inclusive GBP 659.39

Also note,
Pre-Track inspection GBP 75 + vat
Post-Track inspection GBP 75 + vat

Of course, still more expensive that Litchfields but I am not sure I want the fight if something goes wrong.

[Guy]

Originally Posted by ramsub

All Fluid changes
Labour GBP 120 + VAT
Mobil 1 (engine oil) GBP 64.63 + vat
Gtr transmission fluid GBP320.00 + vat
Diff Fluid (both) 75w140 GBP47.70 + vat
Washer Drain GBP1.10 + vat
Oil filter GBP7.00 + vat
Sundries (environmental charge) GBP12.95 + vat
Pre-Vat Price GBP 573.38 Inclusive GBP 659.39

Of course, still more expensive that Litchfields but I am not sure I want the fight if something goes wrong.

Does that £659 include or exclude the 6,000mile service?

[sumo69]

If the 6k is an "oil change only" service, it appears fully inclusive.

D

[Guy]

Change of plans......

I have spoken to Nissan GB today about the 'trans/clutch overheat' warning I got in France (see other thread). They were very helpful, understanding and knowledgeable and wanted to get the car into an HPC for them to examine, to ensure there are no problems.

The car is therefore going to Middlehurst for them to examine and whilst it is there they will do the 6,000 service and fluid changes.