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Old 22nd May 2011, 03:17 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Are Toyo R888's really suitable for the GTR?

I was at Oulton Park at the end of last week, and there was a GT-R there running Toyo 888's. The thing which made me notice them was that there was considerable wear past the tread of the tyre going around onto the sidewall.

Which made me wonder ..

Did Toyo really create this tyre for the GT-R? If so, why is it not in the recommended size? If a tyre is running onto the sidewall then surely it isnt fit for that car (Unless the car is setup with some obscure suspension geometry).

I am surprised that no-one else has mentioned this, or maybe no-one with them is driving them to their limit (or past it!) ?

...Mad
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Old 22nd May 2011, 04:31 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madadd View Post
I was at Oulton Park at the end of last week, and there was a GT-R there running Toyo 888's. The thing which made me notice them was that there was considerable wear past the tread of the tyre going around onto the sidewall.

Which made me wonder ..

Did Toyo really create this tyre for the GT-R? If so, why is it not in the recommended size? If a tyre is running onto the sidewall then surely it isnt fit for that car (Unless the car is setup with some obscure suspension geometry).

I am surprised that no-one else has mentioned this, or maybe no-one with them is driving them to their limit (or past it!) ?

...Mad
Guy was clearly running far too low pressures, simple.
You know I've run 2 sets of R888s and had completely even wear.
Rich_GT set his personal best on them at a sprint.

Don't you think we would have mentioned sidewall wear if it occurred?

They went for the widest sizes that would safely fit on the standard rims with no rubbing issues.
I personally think they went to wide on the rear from a handling balance point of view and will try the front 295s all round next time.
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Old 22nd May 2011, 04:41 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I remember doing a Car Limits Handling day five years back at North Weald airfield with the first exercise being a power slide down the length of the runway at a good 80mph.

An inch of nasty line each of side wall marked, saw me upping the pressure to 45psi all round from 30psi.

Never needed to pump up for the track, don't throw it around that hard!
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Old 22nd May 2011, 04:43 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I've just kept mine at 29/30psi cold (nitrogen) and never needed to bleed or add air at any track event on the R888s.

Tyre wear completely even across the width of all 4 tyres using the max track settings.
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Old 22nd May 2011, 04:44 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Aerodramatics View Post
I remember doing a Car Limits Handling day five years back at North Weald airfield with the first exercise being a power slide down the length of the runway at a good 80mph.

An inch of nasty line each of side wall marked, saw me upping the pressure to 45psi all round from 30psi.

Never needed to pump up for the track, don't throw it around that hard!
Ditto I killed a set off eagle f1s at north Weald exactly the same way

Mook
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Old 22nd May 2011, 04:49 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Ditto I killed a set off eagle f1s at north Weald exactly the same way

Mook
Ah, but wasn't it enormous fun?! + Andy W's arrival and park-up is a bit special!

Just priced the R888s up this morning at CamSkills... summat like 1600 a set for a R35. Good option against the Dunnies, but fancy wrapping some Dunnies on some gold BBS LMs... dunno if the Diamond blacks'll do another run...
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Old 22nd May 2011, 04:54 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Guy was clearly running far too low pressures, simple.
You know I've run 2 sets of R888s and had completely even wear.
Rich_GT set his personal best on them at a sprint.

Don't you think we would have mentioned sidewall wear if it occurred?

They went for the widest sizes that would safely fit on the standard rims with no rubbing issues.
I personally think they went to wide on the rear from a handling balance point of view and will try the front 295s all round next time.
Obviously I didnt ask about tyre pressures, but the guy in question has more experience than most of us at driving a car quickly round a circuit. Answers to the name of Middlehurst! :-)

I really dont think he would drive a car with incorrectly inflated tyres. I think maybe the tyres werent coping with the cornering forces he was exterting on them.

...Mad
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Old 22nd May 2011, 06:02 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by madadd View Post
Obviously I didnt ask about tyre pressures, but the guy in question has more experience than most of us at driving a car quickly round a circuit. Answers to the name of Middlehurst! :-)

I really dont think he would drive a car with incorrectly inflated tyres. I think maybe the tyres werent coping with the cornering forces he was exterting on them.

...Mad
Hmm. Well as mentioned above, if you're absolutely abusing the tyres, you can get all sorts of odd wear patterns. Andy is a racing driver and may have been pushing them way harder than any of us would on a track day.

For any track or road driving I've done, the R888s have been spot on.
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Old 22nd May 2011, 06:06 PM   #9 (permalink)
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David, how many track days do you get on r888?
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Old 22nd May 2011, 06:06 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Ah, but wasn't it enormous fun?! + Andy W's arrival and park-up is a bit special!

Just priced the R888s up this morning at CamSkills... summat like 1600 a set for a R35. Good option against the Dunnies, but fancy wrapping some Dunnies on some gold BBS LMs... dunno if the Diamond blacks'll do another run...
Strange. A mate of mine just ordered them at less than 1400 inc VAT and delivery from Camskills?
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Old 22nd May 2011, 06:21 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Non rfts needs more pressure to hold on the sidewalls I suggest 33 to 35psi.
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Old 22nd May 2011, 06:48 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I personally think they went to wide on the rear from a handling balance point of view and will try the front 295s all round next time.
Hi David, this is also my concern, wont 295s be overkill on the fronts the standard Toyo setup is already wider on the front than the Dunlops..?

Where are you buying 295s from as keen to source these for the rears but was going to keep the standards at 275..

Thanks
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Old 22nd May 2011, 06:58 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Hi David, this is also my concern, wont 295s be overkill on the fronts the standard Toyo setup is already wider on the front than the Dunlops..?

Where are you buying 295s from as keen to source these for the rears but was going to keep the standards at 275..

Thanks
Try Camskill as suggested above!
It's not the width per se, it's the relative width, as the 315s completely tame the rear end, whereas I prefer a bit of adjustability.

Haven't tried 295s all round yet, but it must be better from a balance point of view. Loads of US GT-R track cars run "square" set ups.
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Old 23rd May 2011, 03:19 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Strange. A mate of mine just ordered them at less than 1400 inc VAT and delivery from Camskills?
Interesting to read you found the big R888s too much rubber, especially since you've been running a 600+bhp Purplezilla! Is your new 'un a Bluey?

I did a 750 for fronts and 850 for rears sum for 1600. Checking Camskill, it's about right:

R888 Fronts (285s)
R888 Rears (315s)

2x378+ 2x411 = 756 + 822 = 1578.

Sounds like your mate went square with 285s (1512) *and* wangled a discount, unless.... didn't the Toyo sales rep post on the traders section a while back mentioning a discount. Or was that the Yoko man? Perhaps that's how it was done for 1400. That's a great price.

P.S. Entertaining product video link to an Aussie YouTube R888 review on the Camskill links - David, what were the R888s like in coming up to temp on cold Brit roads in Brit winter/spring/autumn weather? + are you back to running Dunnies or Bridgies? I was also thinking of getting some Blizzacks for this winter imported from Tirerack:

Bridgie Potenzas/Blizzacks + Dunnies and Yokos from Tirerack

Blizzacks coming in at $1512 (*959)
Pirelli Winters $1616 (*1025)
Pots are $1786 (*1133) - no better than UK price
Yokos are only $1378 (*874) a set of 4!
Dunnies are $2091 (*1326) a set

*Using today's tourist exchange rate + shipping and import duty... (no idea what all that comes to)

P.P.S.: Warning! Rant alert! Here comes my rant (should move to Howsie's hosted rant):

Dunnies cost only 17% more in the North American market but 220% more in the EU, go figure! Rubber is just rubber, the rest is pure undiluted "GT-R tax"! (otherwise known as profiteering).

Been said before but...Interesting that we are made to pay so much extra for the Dunnies in the EU. Tut-tut, you can get away with huge prices, operating as a single source supplier in a practical monopoly (although the EU internal market is open theoretically, there is no actual internal competition, only the external market competition of the US) so the supplier price is high because of the virtual monopoly.

For a consumer a virtual or real monopoly produces the same effect, excruciatingly high prices. Where's the EU competition? There is none. The fact is the Dunnie tyre outlets are HPCs only (a restrictive practice in itself perhaps?) & don't compete on price because they have a single source supplier which "suggests" an RRP from which the tyre outlets don't deviate, because it is in the their interest to leave prices static, creating a virtual cartel, to maximise profit, as each outlet has a regional geographic supply monopoly. People will only travel so far to fit tyres. Big business wins, consumers lose.

The market isn't working Mr. EU Commissioner!!! It takes two to tango hence the massive price discrepancy and the EU consumer getting a massive corporate shafting

Hey, Mr. OFT ever heard of abuse of a dominant position with excessive prices and price-discrimination prohibited under the Competition Act 1998? Ring a few bells does it? Get off your backside and sort it! + don't forget the "liquid gold" tranny oil con while you're about it... you know the one, it's where you refuse to tell consumers the spec of your tranny oil, require only your oil to be used and then charge 400% more than the next nearest equivalent product which you say will invalidate warranties 17% to 220% price difference between the NA and EU market for the same two products, can't explain that by EU internal market competition theory can you Mr. OFT? No you flipping can't.

Sure, we can buy other makes of tyre in a "free market", but when it comes to the supply of Dunlop SP Sport Maxx GT 600 DSST CTT, the fact is EU consumers are in a monopoly supplier situation and subjected to excessive pricing, which is prohibited. Otherwise take your artificial EU common market and its import duties and shove it where the sun doesn't shine. I'll take my chances on the global market price, thank you very much.

There, that feels better. All done.
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Last edited by Aerodramatics; 23rd May 2011 at 05:27 AM.. Reason: Aussie review
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Old 23rd May 2011, 08:37 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I had a "delivered price" from Tirerack last year at about $2093 - the below calculation is based on that:

Product description: tyres for cars
Product category: Tyres
Product value: US$2091.00
Country of manufacture: United States

3The cost of shipping and insurance of importingEditShipping costs: US$0.00
Insurance costs: US$0.00

Calculation resultsEditTotal customs value: 1288.13
Import duty: 57.97
Import VAT: 269.22
Total import duty & VAT due: 327.19
Total landed cost: 1615.32 at USD/GBP exchange rate of 0.616


Obviously this would change if the prices have changed - for "UK delivered" pricing - perhaps it has got more expensive?

In any case, you can check it out yourself below - it could be worth it now that Bernanke has devalued the USD massively:

Calculate your import duty in a few quick steps for free | The DutyCalculator

With regards to EU competition rules etc - yes, it is surprising that Nissan woudl breach these - but then again - if there are no consequences for them, why not?
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