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View Poll Results: What will Scotland decide to
Forever trust in union! 50 64.94%
go your own way? 27 35.06%
Voters: 77. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10th September 2014, 10:53 PM   #141 (permalink)
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It just sounds like you are pro-independence because it won't actually after you at all.
Of course it will effect me - I still own my house in Scotland. Less directly, it will affect the passport I carry and it will also be the realisation of something that I have always believed in. It's a country, not a wife.
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Old 11th September 2014, 08:06 AM   #142 (permalink)
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Of course it will effect me - I still own my house in Scotland. Less directly, it will affect the passport I carry and it will also be the realisation of something that I have always believed in. It's a country, not a wife.
Exactly. Your job isn't under threat, your cost of living isn't going to go up and your day to day life remains unaffected. Youre the most pro "yes" person in here and you don't even live there. There are other Members on here who do live up there and want a 'No' vote and you question their judgement.

Perhaps it's easy to watch from afar with Rose tinted glasses.
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Old 11th September 2014, 08:57 AM   #143 (permalink)
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Been listening to a lot of coverage on LBC about this and heard a good point that really made me think.

The mandate for the referendum is simply a majority, meaning a yes vote needs only 1 more person than a no vote.

It strikes me that that is very foolish to allow so much uncertainty which alone will cripple both economies given that pretty much half of those voting didn't want this.

The at least economic negatives for everyone in the UK would very much outweigh the positives for "half" of the people who voted. Doesn't sound equitable to me.

Surely there was a case for insisting on a significant majority in the face of such a massive decision that will affect far more than just the people voting.

Also interesting to hear about the number of financial institutions who already have contingency plans in place for moving toward London, why does that not terrify the Scots?

Are things really so bad as they are? Does the average YES voter appreciate the implications of their decision?
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Old 11th September 2014, 09:06 AM   #144 (permalink)
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Well I saw the yes campaign on breakfast telly this morning and I sat there slack jawed. Not a single thing to hang his hat on other than some nationalistic pride and a need for control. Apparently standard life moving out is meh, RBS meh, other big business meh. They are just brass plaques apparently and the jobs will still stay in Scotland. No economic sense between them. It is incredible.
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Old 11th September 2014, 09:09 AM   #145 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Adamantium View Post
Been listening to a lot of coverage on LBC about this and heard a good point that really made me think.

The mandate for the referendum is simply a majority, meaning a yes vote needs only 1 more person than a no vote.

It strikes me that that is very foolish to allow so much uncertainty which alone will cripple both economies given that pretty much half of those voting didn't want this.

The at least economic negatives for everyone in the UK would very much outweigh the positives for "half" of the people who voted. Doesn't sound equitable to me.

Surely there was a case for insisting on a significant majority in the face of such a massive decision that will affect far more than just the people voting.

Also interesting to hear about the number of financial institutions who already have contingency plans in place for moving toward London, why does that not terrify the Scots?

Are things really so bad as they are? Does the average YES voter appreciate the implications of their decision?
To answer your last bit...NO, i don't think they do understand the implcations.

The thrust of the YES campaign is to target those of l ow/moderate intelligence and play the 'patriotic' card, hoping that the heart willrule the head. Unfortunately I believe that there are more people of this demographic than there are deep thinkers. I love Scotland and dont want to see it ruined by a moment (in relative terms) of hot-headdedness which will leave the country Fkd in future years.

I reitterate that I have no doubt Scotland could go it alone, but I still believe that being a part of the UK is the way forward. Yes, things need shaken up in terms of the political landscape within the UK but it DOES NOT have to take independence to make it happen.


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Old 11th September 2014, 09:13 AM   #146 (permalink)
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Exactly. Your job isn't under threat, your cost of living isn't going to go up and your day to day life remains unaffected. Youre the most pro "yes" person in here and you don't even live there. There are other Members on here who do live up there and want a 'No' vote and you question their judgement.

Perhaps it's easy to watch from afar with Rose tinted glasses.
Ah I see, resorting to circumstantial ad-hominem attacks are we?

It affects the value of my house which I will have to sell in order to buy another house down here. I have friends and family living there so it effects me. I wanted Scotland to be independent when I was living there and I still want it now, what part of that don't you get? I've done more research into it than probably everyone here combined. In fact, I could argue that being a Scot in England means I have a unique view because I know what is going to happen after a No vote better than anyone else.

Not that any of that matters, the facts that I have presented are still accurate. Even if I was an American or Irish Republican arguing for Scottish independence the point remains.
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Old 11th September 2014, 09:19 AM   #147 (permalink)
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Fair enough, you know best.
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Old 11th September 2014, 10:38 AM   #148 (permalink)
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Heard bravehearts being shown on repeat on terrestrial TV in Scotland next week. The no votes fcuked, I'm off to buy a broad sword . I'm obviously joking but for the majority of tossers up here that would be enough to make the yes vote a cert
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Old 11th September 2014, 10:53 AM   #149 (permalink)
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The simple fact is, if it's a "Yes" it's not through the populous dissecting the facts and making an educated decision, it'll be a decision based upon patriotism and a dislike of the English and frankly, if that happens then if it all goes tits up, there will be little sympathy this side of the border.
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Old 11th September 2014, 11:02 AM   #150 (permalink)
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Heard bravehearts being shown on repeat on terrestrial TV in Scotland next week.
William Wallace was very likely about as Scottish as England's patron saint was English.
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Old 11th September 2014, 11:03 AM   #151 (permalink)
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William Wallace was very likely about as Scottish as England's patron saint was English.

Correct, he was also played by an American in the film. Hence why I used it, shows the naivety of some of the voters
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Old 11th September 2014, 11:21 AM   #152 (permalink)
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The simple fact is, if it's a "Yes" it's not through the populous dissecting the facts and making an educated decision, it'll be a decision based upon patriotism and a dislike of the English and frankly, if that happens then if it all goes tits up, there will be little sympathy this side of the border.
Really? How closely have you been following the debate because the news we get down here in England is pretty limited and entirely one-sided. Some of the most intelligent people I know have considered it and come up with a Yes vote. In fact, the polls have been turning because people are being persuaded to vote Yes - if it was all patriotism and hate for the English shouldn't the Yes camp have been ahead from the beginning? The more people hear the facts (not the BS from the UK government) the more likely they are to vote Yes, that is why the polls have been going towards Yes. If anything, the No vote has held steady because the No voters have been No from the beginning and have decided to ignore anything and everything they hear except what Better-Together tells them. If the vote is No it will be due to natural Scottish pessimism and blind ignorance. In fact the majority of No voters I know are the Brit Nats who fly the union jack everywhere - the ones with rocks for brains.
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Old 11th September 2014, 11:28 AM   #153 (permalink)
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Honestly I don't think you can say that, you can't know every voter and it's of the same sweeping generalisation that I keep seeing the Yes people making.

Who is brainwashing who exactly?
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Old 11th September 2014, 11:49 AM   #154 (permalink)
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Honestly I don't think you can say that, you can't know every voter and it's of the same sweeping generalisation that I keep seeing the Yes people making.

Who is brainwashing who exactly?
That was my reaction to your earlier post. Depends on the company you keep and who you believe. I'd never trust an MP or government department, from north sea oil to WMDs to expenses... I'd trust them about as far as I can throw them (off a cliff).
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Old 11th September 2014, 12:23 PM   #155 (permalink)
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I am not sure how you are reacting to my post when it seemed to be answering Mook.

But you would trust bald economic fact surely? No Bank of England - no currency union - no pound (unless shadowed) - no Government bond for deposits - no quantitive easing = banks move south (it's not a brass plaque move it's economic might), withdrawing of deposits from Scottish banks (some even say it could be a run), interest rate increases, housing price depression and hikes in income tax to cover shortfalls.

No?
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Old 11th September 2014, 12:41 PM   #156 (permalink)
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the No vote has held steady because the No voters have been No from the beginning and have decided to ignore anything and everything they hear except what Better-Together tells them. If the vote is No it will be due to natural Scottish pessimism and blind ignorance. In fact the majority of No voters I know are the Brit Nats who fly the union jack everywhere - the ones with rocks for brains.
This says everything I need to know.
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Old 11th September 2014, 12:43 PM   #157 (permalink)
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I am not sure how you are reacting to my post when it seemed to be answering Mook.

But you would trust bald economic fact surely? No Bank of England - no currency union - no pound (unless shadowed) - no Government bond for deposits - no quantitive easing = banks move south (it's not a brass plaque move it's economic might), withdrawing of deposits from Scottish banks (some even say it could be a run), interest rate increases, housing price depression and hikes in income tax to cover shortfalls.

No?
Nope. Taxes are based on economic activity, not registered HQ. The RBS chief exec sent out an email to all staff after making this announcement saying that there will be no change to the banks operations, no transfer of jobs, it was purely a technical change. This is what happened when Nick Robinson tried that argument:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHmLb-RIbrM

Can anyone say... ass kicking?

Oh and here is David Cameron's (and the rest of Westminster) response to 68% of Scots wanting North Sea revenues devolved:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NthEdcoQ_Hs

Tells me all I need to know.
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Old 11th September 2014, 12:48 PM   #158 (permalink)
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So OK on the tax, they have a POV but we are talking economic reality and Scotland being small will have to ultimately raise taxes to cover their deficit. But hey ho. Also no comment on withdrawal of deposits from Scottish banks, higher interest rates, housing price depression or lack of currency union?

And basing the break up of a union on one meeting in Parliament says everything I need to know. It's nothing to do with what is good for Scotland, it's stupid nationalistic socialism and Tory bashing. Which is a shame for Scotland.

I was an 'undecided' two days ago. Reading up on it I'm now firmly in the Nos.....
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Old 11th September 2014, 12:53 PM   #159 (permalink)
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Also I trust you realise it is much easier to portray Salmond as 'smacking people down' and as giving a 'positive message' than it is trying to put across the actual points. I will give him his due he is well fired up for it. But I've yet to see him actually say anything of economic substance.

As for RBS being a 'brass plaque' move with no loss of jobs, we'll see shall we. You do understand that the legal and financial might will move to London yes?

You also understand investors are poised to remove their money from Scottish banks in the event of a yes? Hell, I've had financial advice recently to take my deposits out of any Scottish owned banks as they'll loose their government backed guarantee.
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Old 11th September 2014, 12:59 PM   #160 (permalink)
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I hope we don't split, I have a lot of respect for the Scots and think we are a better nation together. Although the political stance of many in Scotland generally appears very much old school Labour state principle beliefs.
That said I don't necessarily disagree with those wanting independence, since the detail of the split has not been fully bottomed out and for sure some people are being carried along by 'patriotism' - grass greener etc. Rather like the UK/EU to some extent and there is much disaffection as there is increasingly in parts of England.

But if it does go Yes then it should be hard divorce terms - everything split/apportioned - debts, everything per capita or whatever is legal - and that doesn't mean the oil division lines automatically all transfer...and all the costs of the divorce should be borne by the Scots with no UK subsidies ongoing at all. Clean break as far as possible.
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