Upgrade Bible - lets write one

[DevilJin]

Hey people, I'm about to buy my second R33 GTR, and I want to tune her for quick response at low revs, and a 0-60 time of 4 seconds, so my first thought is lets go for HKS GT-SS turbos.

What should my second thought be?

In fact, while we're on the subject, I had an R33 GTR for a year and a half, but I never really understood what all the various bits did. I've had many looks through the forums and came to the conclusion that it would be beneficial to both newbies and amateurs (I optmisitically place myself in the latter category), to have a sticky, listing the various parts, saying what each does, listing different makes, the relative advantages of each make in people's experience, and how much increase in horsepower one might expect from the standard 280.

I realise that its quite likely that I'll get the usual resonse of "do a search you lazy git". But think back to when you sought the knowledge I speak of, would such a thread not have been phenomenally welcome?

The list I had in mind would include:

Boost Controller
ECU
Turbo
Injectors
Fuel Pump
Cams
Pulleys
Fuel Rail
Wastegate
Downpipe
Hard Pipe kit
Intercooler
Exhaust
Radiator

and so on.
Feel free to add items to the list, and to comment on other peoples posts. I will periodically conslidate the controbutions, and eventually compile the results into a guide, and hopefully it will prove immensely valuable to everyone. So, allow me to make a start:

Boost Controller:
Allows you to control the boost pressure in your turbos (no shit sherlock ), between set parameters. Options include the Power FC, Blitz-SBC, HKS EVC, Greddy Profec-B and so on. Advantages of each? Er.... the HKS looks pretty...

I just had a thought..... maybe it would be better to do individual threads for each item..... nah, lets do it all one, and then I'll compile the results on one thread with individual posts for each item.... this is gonna be cool. Come on people, lets start contributing the wealth of our combined experience

[andyneed4speed]

I'll second that Put myself just above newbie - and only because of the useful info I've picked up from here virtually every night since I bought my GTR.

As an example, my R33 is running about 0.9 bar (didn't realise that wasn't standard for ages )

Trouble is, I don't know why It's a standard ECU from the outside (but I haven't had the cover off yet). Not a boost controller in sight (but I probably wouldn't know where to look anyway - or what to look for )

I've had standard downpipes replaced with HKS - does it need a re-map? I use optimax - does it need a re-map? etc., etc.

Some of the threads on here make me go "ah, that's interesting/useful" (I've started saving some of them in my favourites for future ref). Other threads make me worry

I've done the searches but you can end up trawling through 100+ threads (1000+ posts????) just to find a concensus opinion on what you need to know.

What we need are four blokes - any Matthew, Mark, Luke & Johns on here? to write the Skyline Bible

[SteveN]

There is soo many options and ways of doing things that a single post would be massive to fit it all in.

One thing often see is massivley OTT specs of parts that just are pointless, but as the rumour mill goes on people believe certain things.

Also quick responce and quick 0-60 time are not really connected, the specs to get the fastest of each would be quite different, but as you only aiming for a 4sec 0-60 you can easy have both without huge money spent.

TBH, if you dont understand what parts do what and why, you really are best leaving it to a tuner.
But at the same time read lots and try and learn, though you will no doubt get side tracked by reading a lot of BS.

But doing one single post on it all would take next to for ever (i mean even on boost control you could go on for 100s of words to get it remotley all covered, as there a lot more to it than "allows your boost to be set to a set pressure"), probably better off buying one of the various books on the tech side of turbocharged cars than starting a massive new car bible.

Though asking specific questions isnt a bad thing, and can easy be answered.

[R33GTS]

Think its a great idea, although as said the thread would be massive but we could do what each part does and how it affects the car would be good for lazy n00bs like me

[felixy69]

gasket and the tranny..stock rb26 tranny only good for max of 550hp

[SteveN]

Originally Posted by felixy69

gasket and the tranny..stock rb26 tranny only good for max of 550hp

What about the gasket? (you mean head gasket)

The transmission is good for massivley more than that. It will break sometimes, but the amount it would breaks in a 550bhp road car wouldnt justify an uprated box, and deffo not diffs. 550bhp at the WHEELS maybe...
Seen standard GTR tranny run v.low 10s on the 1/4, and seen them on cars of almost 4 figures on the road.

[djdna2000]

Steve, a tuning guide could be written though, I know there are lots of options but for reasonable upgrades there are certain things which are common surely? I don't even own a skyline but I read this site quite a lot and I think I could guess what some common upgrade routes and pitfalls are. I wrote one for the GT4 which many noobs have told me has been very useful, and someone with a similar RB26 knowledge could do the same for the Skyline.

[DevilJin]

Originally Posted by andyneed4speed

What we need are four blokes - any Matthew, Mark, Luke & Johns on here? to write the Skyline Bible

lolz.....

okay, I realise this is a mamoth task, so lets make this more focussed,
1) what do cams do (I've always wondered)
2) what's the cheapest way to acieve 0-60 in 4 seconds

Regards

[Nocturnal]

Well, I think the first question is how much power is needed to achieve 0-60 in 4 second. Then you have to choose the turbo to achieve that power.

If we need 600bhp, GT-SS is out of the question. But we won't need a T88. But for a fact that trying to achive those time, the standard turbo have got to go. What would be the cheapest option? Thats the question.

First thing to decide what turbo to go for, then everything after that is to accompany the turbo to make the target HP.

[SteveN]

Originally Posted by DevilJin

1) what do cams do

Open the valves to a set height for a set amount of time.
Higher they open (lift) and longer they open for (duration) more air the air can get in and out, and technically the more power it can produce.
Cams are a very swings and roundabouts thing though, what you gain somewhere you often lose somehwere else.
And the advantage of turbo cars is you dont have to rely on mad cams to get power as you can rely on the turbo boost (providing the engine is specced to take it!), so can minimise the losses while adding the gains.

More lift dont usually give any real performance disadvantages, but on turbo cars the longer duration the higher the boost threshold is, and the less low down power you generally have, while giving more power high up.
Long duration cams help get the maximum power out of a set size turbo, especially smaller ones, but the loss of low down power and the way they raise the boost threshold often make the losses more than the gains, and is particularly noticable on Skylines running big turbos and wild cams, as their powerband is often 5500-9500 and thats a bit high for a road car in my eyes.
Personally on a ROAD car id not want to go past 260-265 duration, which is easily good enough for over 800bhp with the right turbo etc anyhow.

Originally Posted by DevilJin

2) what's the cheapest way to acieve 0-60 in 4 seconds

If want truly the cheapest then its...
Strip the car right out so is light as possible.
Fit drag tyres (road legal or not).
After the above id say youd not need much mods, maybe a stg1 sorta conversion.
And maybe some nitrous on top if you did need more power.
Obv not the most road friendly, but that wasnt the question!

[DevilJin]

Originally Posted by SteveN

Open the valves to a set height for a set amount of time.
Higher they open (lift) and longer they open for (duration) more air the air can get in and out, and technically the more power it can produce.
Cams are a very swings and roundabouts thing though, what you gain somewhere you often lose somehwere else.
And the advantage of turbo cars is you dont have to rely on mad cams to get power as you can rely on the turbo boost (providing the engine is specced to take it!), so can minimise the losses while adding the gains.

More lift dont usually give any real performance disadvantages, but on turbo cars the longer duration the higher the boost threshold is, and the less low down power you generally have, while giving more power high up.
Long duration cams help get the maximum power out of a set size turbo, especially smaller ones, but the loss of low down power and the way they raise the boost threshold often make the losses more than the gains, and is particularly noticable on Skylines running big turbos and wild cams, as their powerband is often 5500-9500 and thats a bit high for a road car in my eyes.
Personally on a ROAD car id not want to go past 260-265 duration, which is easily good enough for over 800bhp with the right turbo etc anyhow.

Shame there's no disciple called Steve, because that stuff about cams is gospel, and is going straight in the bible (I'm determined to put one together!)

Jokes aside, thanks mate, that was very useful.

Originally Posted by SteveN

If want truly the cheapest then its...
Strip the car right out so is light as possible.
Fit drag tyres (road legal or not).
After the above id say youd not need much mods, maybe a stg1 sorta conversion.
And maybe some nitrous on top if you did need more power.
Obv not the most road friendly, but that wasnt the question!

Fair enough......

Allow me to rephrase the question, what is the most cost effective way, while maximising drivability, reliability, and responseiveness, achieve 0-60 in 4 seconds. Looking for a street car set up, and don't want to go on a diet (me or the car!) and have fallen in love with the idea of HKS GT-SS turbos and their promise of lower lag and power earlier on in the revs range, so what else can I get in addition to these. I'm thinking full exhaust system, air intake kit, ECU, boost controller, aforementioned turbos set to 1.4 bar, iridium plugs, bigger injectors, intercooler and blow off valves.

[Hydro]

and a 5.7L V8 engine!