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Old 12th April 2017, 05:14 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Skyline frontal impact strength

Something that is overlooked but the reality is that all 3 models of the Skyline GTRs have very poor front end impact structure.

Some pictures I found on social media (apologies if it's someone here and does not want them up, contact me and I'll remove them)

It is no surprise to see the Ford Ka faired much better than the R33 GTR. Apart from driving safer, fitting a cage spot welding front end and extending the roll cagine into and reinforcing the engine bay there is not much else that can be done to improve front end safety. Then you need to factor in and make sure there is a crumple zone to dissipate impact energy. Not an easy thing to do.



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Old 12th April 2017, 06:58 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Horribly sight and the side impact protection is very poor too, I was certain I wanted at least a 6 point cage and door bars before taking mine on track.
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Old 12th April 2017, 07:16 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Sorry meant seam welding not spot.
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Old 12th April 2017, 07:17 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexJ View Post
Horribly sight and the side impact protection is very poor too, I was certain I wanted at least a 6 point cage and door bars before taking mine on track.
Makes me think about getting a full weld in cage too seeing crashes like this. It is not limited to the R32/33 only the R34 is just as soft or as bad as the R33. R32 is the worst out of the lot.
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Old 12th April 2017, 07:21 PM   #5 (permalink)
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How rusty were the rails? That rust on the towers?
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Old 12th April 2017, 07:52 PM   #6 (permalink)
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You can't drive with a cage without a helmet. You'll save the car but you'll need a valet to remove your brains from the upholstery.
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Old 12th April 2017, 08:22 PM   #7 (permalink)
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You can't drive with a cage without a helmet. You'll save the car but you'll need a valet to remove your brains from the upholstery.
Depends. Leaving cages to one side, if your head makes contact with anything other than an airbag in a crash and you are in trouble.

Even with a helmet on, contact with a roll cage is no joke. A cage needs a restrained driver, 6 point harness ideally, proper "padding" (misnomer, FIA stuff it is rock hard) and enough clearance to avoid contact in an impact imo. And of course a helmet ideally, but properly setup its not a massive additional risk on the road without one, unless you treat the road like a track.
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Last edited by AlexJ; 12th April 2017 at 08:26 PM..
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Old 12th April 2017, 08:50 PM   #8 (permalink)
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RUF make cars with integral cages, Ginetta, Ultima and a few others are similar; exposed or alcantara trimmed cages. If they were fundementally unsafe these cars wouldn't meet standards required for sale; TUV, Type approval or whatever. Just depends how you do it.

In an R32/S13 it is very hard to fit a 6 point cage and a proper seat and have adequate clearance without lowering the seat mounting points.

Overlapped impacts like the one above is something that older cars and skylines especially bad in. Modern crash tests mean standards are much higher now.
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Old 12th April 2017, 09:13 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Longitudinal engine layout is also not as good in an overlap impact as the drivetrain misses and the shell takes all the energy.

As for cages it depends if your head can easily hit the bar. Tall people, skylines and cages aren't a good mix.
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Old 12th April 2017, 09:15 PM   #10 (permalink)
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You can't drive with a cage without a helmet. You'll save the car but you'll need a valet to remove your brains from the upholstery.
You can, you just need the correct 4 or 6 point harness to hold you in place rather than a standard inertia reel seat belt. As long as you can't come out of the seat, your swede will be safe
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Old 13th April 2017, 12:39 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Interesting point safety. Of course the older cars are not as safe as the new ones. I suspect the majority of the improvements to crash safety numbers come from modern safety systems.

The question to ask is what is your limit? Motorbikes are not safe compared to cars. Push bikes the same. I see guys riding about with flip flops on...
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Old 13th April 2017, 12:41 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexJ View Post
RUF make cars with integral cages, Ginetta, Ultima and a few others are similar; exposed or alcantara trimmed cages. If they were fundementally unsafe these cars wouldn't meet standards required for sale; TUV, Type approval or whatever. Just depends how you do it.

In an R32/S13 it is very hard to fit a 6 point cage and a proper seat and have adequate clearance without lowering the seat mounting points.

Overlapped impacts like the one above is something that older cars and skylines especially bad in. Modern crash tests mean standards are much higher now.
Don't suppose you know anyone who can do a cage like the ones Ruf use?

Normal cages are too obtrusive in an R32 for my liking
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Old 16th April 2017, 05:53 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Food for thought: one of the major changes made to the Skyline GTRs during the early days of import into the US was crashworthiness improvements. Maybe once all Skyline GTRs are FMVSS exempt there will be a release of information on the modifications done to bring the 1996-1998 R33 GTRs into FMVSS compliance.

The MotoRex cars don't have visible cages so it's probably strategic welds and reinforcements in order to pass crash safety.

There may also be chassis rigidity improvements derived from such reinforcements. In this crash you can very clearly see that the safety cell collapsed. I would be shocked if the driver of the Skyline escaped unscathed.
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Old 16th April 2017, 06:41 AM   #14 (permalink)
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They shrinkwrap you when crashed. Very old cars esp the R32 models.

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Old 16th April 2017, 07:14 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I thought about this long and hard when I was looking into buying an R32 back in 2011(boy did I miss the boat!) and looked into the crash worthiness of these cars. A Ruf style integrated would be a big leap forward, but remember the 911 is a strong and stiff car without it, and the cage is around £10,000 installed AFAIK. As joshuaho96 says the MotoRex cars were modified to pass American crash safety, so would it be worth contacting them to see if they could help?
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Old 16th April 2017, 09:14 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I thought about this long and hard when I was looking into buying an R32 back in 2011(boy did I miss the boat!) and looked into the crash worthiness of these cars. A Ruf style integrated would be a big leap forward, but remember the 911 is a strong and stiff car without it, and the cage is around £10,000 installed AFAIK. As joshuaho96 says the MotoRex cars were modified to pass American crash safety, so would it be worth contacting them to see if they could help?
It's important to note that Motorex is defunct now. JK Technologies was the company that did the actual work here and they have not been compelled by the government to release the technical data package for FMVSS + EPA compliance.
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Old 17th April 2017, 01:03 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Scary, Those pictures are truly shocking FRRACER. I do hope that all those involved in that accident were Ok.

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As for cages it depends if your head can easily hit the bar. Tall people, skylines and cages aren't a good mix.
True...We Humans don't react well to side impact head trauma but that's not the only concern lightspeed. I thought long and hard about fitting a Cage to mine back last year (even contacted members on here who'd fitted ones to their Skylines for their opinions) but I ultimately decided against going for one in the end.

I know that Roll Cages do save lives but all the multi-point bolt-in versions I've seen available for Our GT-R's seem to have the vital bolt in parts located in what on some can become quite flimsy areas of the Skyline cockpit.

You only have to look closely at the front of an R33/R34 that's been jacked up poorly on the front lower Sill area to see how the incorrect loading weakens the Shell's integrity as the Sill lip gets crushed, the inner Sill bottom distorts and the Floor Pan splits spreading both upwards/inwards destroying the water repelling duties of the Factory applied primers/paints/seam-sealers in the process.

Given a very short amount of time, water ingress turns everything hidden inside the vicinity of the Sills crushed Jacking Point into a crusty rusty mess with little to no impact strength left!

This corrosive badness all happens within inches of what would be one of a Roll Cages main bolt in point locations (and of course Our feet too!) which eventually lead me to question the crash worthy effectiveness of such a safety device retro fitted to such an old vehicle.

The rear wheel well bolt-in locations seem better but alas I do wonder about the overall bolt-in cages effectiveness if the first front bolt-in location would most likely punch through the Cars flimsy floor pan in a crash situation....

For me, a proper multi-point professional weld in Roll Cage like what's seen in high end Motorsport (WRC/V8 Supercars/DTM/BTCC etc) would be the only safe option BUT these would be hugely expensive, massively intrusive to the cars cabin restricting in and out movements and thus destroying the vehicles practicality of being a Family friendly everyday Road Car.

JM2PW!
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Old 21st April 2017, 12:52 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Wow, these pictures are a real eye opener :O
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Old 21st April 2017, 01:41 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Bolt in roll cages don't just 'punch through the floor'. You weld in 3mm steel load spreading plates. It's not really any different to a weld in cage once you've done that.

See the four spreading plates I fabricated for a 205 shell a few years ago. Also included front towers out of 3mm for the front legs.
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Old 21st April 2017, 02:50 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Bolt in roll cages don't just 'punch through the floor'. You weld in 3mm steel load spreading plates. It's not really any different to a weld in cage once you've done that.
Your Car may come with these vital safety features fitted alexcrosse but I have seen a few Skylines over the years which did not have any extra reinforcement done to these areas....

I guess its ultimately all down to who fits them and if they are just for show or for functionality at the end of the day?!
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