RB30 engine conversion (lots of pics) - Page 12 - GT-R Register - Official Nissan Skyline and GTR Owners Club forum

t51rjohn · 3rd September 2006, 07:06 PM

Hi i am doing this conversion for my R32 GTS-T so am using the rb25de head and inlet manifold etc.

What have you done / are going to do about Oil Squirters for the bottoms of the pistons??

Thanks John

R32 Combat · 3rd September 2006, 08:47 PM

Hi John,

I've not got oil squirters. It's possable with the RB30, but the oil gallery wall might not be thick enough. Ive been told its a bit hit and miss with the RB30 blocks.

SkylineUSA · 3rd September 2006, 09:19 PM

Nice work Andy! Glad to see you have it sorted out.

R32 Combat · 3rd September 2006, 09:32 PM

Cheers Tony,

Off to the mappers real soon so I'll be able to post up some figures.

t51rjohn · 4th September 2006, 12:33 AM

do you think having no oil squirters will be detrimental to the reliability of the engine??
Or are you mapping the car rich to keep temps down.

Also a friend of mine mentioned knife edging the crank as this does'nt cost much and is good for repeated high rpm use(not that you need to rev high RB30) I s this a worth while mod for me. I will be using the GT35 hopefully with cams, fuel and flow rate of head running 20-25 psi.

Awesome car really need to see this in the flesh. Hopefully see you at some shows.

Thanks for the thread answer some unaswered questions off of www.skylinesaustralia.com forums

Thanks John

p.s cant wait to find out what the RB20DET - RB30DET Upgrade is like!!!!

R.I.P.S NZ · 4th September 2006, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t51rjohn

p.s cant wait to find out what the RB20DET - RB30DET Upgrade is like!!!!

Here's a link to one we have just done, (dyno printouts) just changed from a RB20 to a RB30 with the same turbo, injectors, fuel system etc, huge difference.

http://www.skylinesdownunder.com/for...ad.php?t=52649

Andy Hornsby · 27th September 2006, 10:43 AM

Andy,

Magical post mate.

Been reading with interest for a while now.

Not only have you done a sterling job, but you have taken the time to photograph and explain very stage of the build. Well done.

How did the mapping finally turn out?

Have you upped the boost yet?

Andy.

R32 Combat · 27th September 2006, 11:10 AM

Mapping, now there's a topic.

I've found out some interesting information about Nissans and the CAS.

This is what I've been told by 'a man who knows'

Ever since the CAS was used, Nissan found that the ignition timing would drift as 4500-5000rpm. This is caused by engine harmonics in it's STD form and there is nothing physical that can be done about it. Nissan got around this be basically not using the CAS through this rev range and calculating the ignition timing using engine speed. All cars with CAS suffer from this. Which is why Toyota don't use this system. As soon as anything is changed in the valve train, the rpm of ignition scatter changes, which is why DET is so pronounced in the RB engines.

Motec, Autronic etc all suffer from ignition drift. This is why the Japanese are so keen to run with a piggyback system which utilises the Nissan 'fix' for this problem.

AEM and GEM's are both working on a fix for this. The problem is, the American customer base for the RB26 AEM is very small for it's a low priority for them. As soon as an acceptable solution has been found, it will be implamented on my car and I get a free mapping session.(Bonus)

This is the only problem with the AEM, it's not just an AEM problem, but a nissan bodge from the very beginning.

However, until then, I'll be running a safe 1bar boost with safe ignition timing.

I've hatched a plan to run the CAS straight off the bottom cam pully, which will eliminate all these issues and make for a cracking setup.

Back to my mapping. Although I've not dyno'd it yet, the car runs perfectly, drives very smoothly and is very quick. The turbo lag is greatly reduced and I no longer use the ALS for launches, it lights up all 4 wheels with great ease. It's time to activate the launch control me thinks.

I'll be running @ pod for wheeze and see what I can break.(probably the gearbox and my wallet(again))

These are no issues with the conversion, everything works and I think its a great conversion.

Maybe in hind sight I would have opted for uprated conrod's, but there does it all end????

Andy Hornsby · 27th September 2006, 11:15 AM

Cheers for the update Andy.

Asim R32GTR · 27th September 2006, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R32 Combat

I've hatched a plan to run the CAS straight off the bottom cam pully, which will eliminate all these issues and make for a cracking setup.

Would you mind me asking how this would be done??
Tha crank turns twice the speed of the cams.... how will you solve this??

Asim...

ExScoobyT · 27th September 2006, 11:59 AM

Easyiest thing would be mount a ford / gm / other oem missing tooth wheel on the crank pulley. Add a sensor and job done!

Asim R32GTR · 27th September 2006, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExScoobyT

Easyiest thing would be mount a ford / gm / other oem missing tooth wheel on the crank pulley. Add a sensor and job done!

Thats exactly what i was thinking.
Mounting a 60-2 trigger wheel would give you a perfect crank signal....

Asim...

R32 Combat · 27th September 2006, 12:09 PM

The CAS counts every 2degs of crank rotation(1deg of cam rotation). I don't know of any other car that has that accuracy.

I've discussed retro fitting a different crank angle system, but it's harder than I thought. Although nothing is impossable.

Asim R32GTR

Simple, use the existing cam pully fitted straight onto the CAS and run another belt off the crank cam pulley. The belt only needs to be very thin due to the miniscule amount on energy required to turn the CAS. It might just work....

Asim R32GTR · 27th September 2006, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R32 Combat

The CAS counts every 2degs of crank rotation(1deg of cam rotation). I don't know of any other car that has that accuracy.

I've discussed retro fitting a different crank angle system, but it's harder than I thought. Although nothing is impossable.

Asim R32GTR

Simple, use the existing cam pully fitted straight onto the CAS and run another belt off the crank cam pulley. The belt only needs to be very thin due to the miniscule amount on energy required to turn the CAS. It might just work....

Sorry but i am having trouble understanding what you mean by this.

cam pulley is one thing
crank pulley is another

How will you fit the cam pulley to the cas??

Sound like a mickey mouse job to me...

R32 Combat · 27th September 2006, 12:26 PM

Cam pulley = Camshaft pulley
Crankshaft cambelt pulley is the small pulley on the crank that drives the cambelt.
Crank pulley is the huge pulley with the PAS,A/C etc belts on.

I'm talking about the crankshaft cambelt pulley and the camshaft pulley.

Basically, if I use these to pulleys, the 1/2 ratio remains correct.

27th September 2006, 10:43 AM	#172 (permalink)
Andy Hornsby GTROC Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Blyth, Northumberland. Posts: 3,092	Andy, Magical post mate. Been reading with interest for a while now. Not only have you done a sterling job, but you have taken the time to photograph and explain very stage of the build. Well done. How did the mapping finally turn out? Have you upped the boost yet? Andy. __________________ GTROC Northern Trackday Rep.

27th September 2006, 11:15 AM	#174 (permalink)
Andy Hornsby GTROC Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Blyth, Northumberland. Posts: 3,092	Cheers for the update Andy. __________________ GTROC Northern Trackday Rep.

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3rd September 2006, 07:06 PM	#166 (permalink)
t51rjohn GTR Register Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 95	Hi i am doing this conversion for my R32 GTS-T so am using the rb25de head and inlet manifold etc. What have you done / are going to do about Oil Squirters for the bottoms of the pistons?? Thanks John

3rd September 2006, 08:47 PM	#167 (permalink)
R32 Combat New Users Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Berkshire Posts: 4,341	Hi John, I've not got oil squirters. It's possable with the RB30, but the oil gallery wall might not be thick enough. Ive been told its a bit hit and miss with the RB30 blocks.

3rd September 2006, 09:19 PM	#168 (permalink)
SkylineUSA GTR Register Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Cotswolds Posts: 1,522	Nice work Andy! Glad to see you have it sorted out.

3rd September 2006, 09:32 PM	#169 (permalink)
R32 Combat New Users Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Berkshire Posts: 4,341	Cheers Tony, Off to the mappers real soon so I'll be able to post up some figures.

4th September 2006, 12:33 AM	#170 (permalink)
t51rjohn GTR Register Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 95	do you think having no oil squirters will be detrimental to the reliability of the engine?? Or are you mapping the car rich to keep temps down. Also a friend of mine mentioned knife edging the crank as this does'nt cost much and is good for repeated high rpm use(not that you need to rev high RB30) I s this a worth while mod for me. I will be using the GT35 hopefully with cams, fuel and flow rate of head running 20-25 psi. Awesome car really need to see this in the flesh. Hopefully see you at some shows. Thanks for the thread answer some unaswered questions off of www.skylinesaustralia.com forums Thanks John p.s cant wait to find out what the RB20DET - RB30DET Upgrade is like!!!!

27th September 2006, 11:10 AM	#173 (permalink)
R32 Combat New Users Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Berkshire Posts: 4,341	Mapping, now there's a topic. I've found out some interesting information about Nissans and the CAS. This is what I've been told by 'a man who knows' Ever since the CAS was used, Nissan found that the ignition timing would drift as 4500-5000rpm. This is caused by engine harmonics in it's STD form and there is nothing physical that can be done about it. Nissan got around this be basically not using the CAS through this rev range and calculating the ignition timing using engine speed. All cars with CAS suffer from this. Which is why Toyota don't use this system. As soon as anything is changed in the valve train, the rpm of ignition scatter changes, which is why DET is so pronounced in the RB engines. Motec, Autronic etc all suffer from ignition drift. This is why the Japanese are so keen to run with a piggyback system which utilises the Nissan 'fix' for this problem. AEM and GEM's are both working on a fix for this. The problem is, the American customer base for the RB26 AEM is very small for it's a low priority for them. As soon as an acceptable solution has been found, it will be implamented on my car and I get a free mapping session.(Bonus) This is the only problem with the AEM, it's not just an AEM problem, but a nissan bodge from the very beginning. However, until then, I'll be running a safe 1bar boost with safe ignition timing. I've hatched a plan to run the CAS straight off the bottom cam pully, which will eliminate all these issues and make for a cracking setup. Back to my mapping. Although I've not dyno'd it yet, the car runs perfectly, drives very smoothly and is very quick. The turbo lag is greatly reduced and I no longer use the ALS for launches, it lights up all 4 wheels with great ease. It's time to activate the launch control me thinks. I'll be running @ pod for wheeze and see what I can break.(probably the gearbox and my wallet(again)) These are no issues with the conversion, everything works and I think its a great conversion. Maybe in hind sight I would have opted for uprated conrod's, but there does it all end????

27th September 2006, 11:59 AM	#176 (permalink)
ExScoobyT GTR Register Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: `down sourfff Posts: 1,046	Easyiest thing would be mount a ford / gm / other oem missing tooth wheel on the crank pulley. Add a sensor and job done!

27th September 2006, 12:09 PM	#178 (permalink)
R32 Combat New Users Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Berkshire Posts: 4,341	The CAS counts every 2degs of crank rotation(1deg of cam rotation). I don't know of any other car that has that accuracy. I've discussed retro fitting a different crank angle system, but it's harder than I thought. Although nothing is impossable. Asim R32GTR Simple, use the existing cam pully fitted straight onto the CAS and run another belt off the crank cam pulley. The belt only needs to be very thin due to the miniscule amount on energy required to turn the CAS. It might just work....

27th September 2006, 12:26 PM	#180 (permalink)
R32 Combat New Users Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Berkshire Posts: 4,341	Cam pulley = Camshaft pulley Crankshaft cambelt pulley is the small pulley on the crank that drives the cambelt. Crank pulley is the huge pulley with the PAS,A/C etc belts on. I'm talking about the crankshaft cambelt pulley and the camshaft pulley. Basically, if I use these to pulleys, the 1/2 ratio remains correct.