Tipping The Scale - GT-R Register - Official Nissan Skyline and GTR Owners Club forum

Andy Barnes · 9th November 2002, 07:46 PM

HI ALL, CORNER WEIGHING I AM ON ABOUT...

JUST GOT BACK FROM GARY'S TONIGHT, WENT DOWN THERE TO SOLVE SOME SERIOUS HANDLING PROBLEMS I HAVE BEEN EXPERIENCING OVER THE PAST WEEK AFTER CHANGING SOME SUSPENSION SETTINGS AND WHEELS

I HAVE ALWAYS HAD HANDLING PROBLEMS WHEN UNDER SEVERE BRAKING, NOTHING TO DO WITH THE BRAKES BUT MORE OF THE CAR DIVING AND BECOMING UNSTEADY FROM VERY HIGH SPEEDS, COUPLED WITH MY RECENT SPEED WOBBLING I HAD TO SORT IT OUT.

GARY HAS HIS NEW CORNER WEIGHT TESTING GEAR SET UP AT THE WORKSHOP WHICH TO EXPLAIN IN BRIEF FOR THOSE WHOM DONT KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT IS PUTTING MEASURING SCALE ALUMINIUM PADS UNDER EACH WHEEL WHICH READS THE WEIGHT ON THAT WHEEL AND COMBINES ALL FOUR WEIGHTS AT THE CENTRAL GIZMO BOX TO SHOW TOTAL WEIGHT OF THE CAR AND EACH WEIGHT AT EACH WHEEL IN BOTH KILOS AND PERCENTAGE IN DIGITAL FORM.

I WAS AMAZED TO SEE JUST HOW FAR OUT MY CAR WAS, IT WAS 80 KILOS OUT OF TRUE FROM CORNER TO CORNER WHICH IS ABOUT THE SAME WEIGHT MY ACTUAL PERSON ( NEARLY 13 STONE), JUST IMAGINE THE EFFECTS OF HAVING SOMEONE SITTING OVER ONE WHEEL ON A CORNER EVERYTIME YOU TAKE A CORNER OR BRAKE, THE PROBLEM WAS IDENTIFIED IN ABOUT 2 MINUTES!

THEN GARY SET ABOUT CHANGING THE CARS WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION BY ADJUSTING THE PLATFORMS ON EACH SHOCK ABSORBER ( RIDE HEIGHT) WHICH IN TURN BEGINS TO LIFT OR LOWER EACH CORNER UNTIL A HAPPY MEDIUM OF WEIGHT IS ACHEIVED. AFTER ABOUT 40 MINUTES WE SCALED DOWN THE DISTRIBUTION TO BE WITHIN 4 KILOS DIFFERENCE WHICH IS STILL NOT PERFECT BUT I DIDNT HAVE TIME TO PERFECT IS AS I HAD TO GET HOME. I AM CERTAIN THAT ANOTHER 20 MINUTES OF FINE TUNING WOULD HAVE SEEN THE CARS WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION PERFECT

IN THE SAME SESSION GARY ALSO ALTERED MY ' TOE IN ' AS IT WAS ALSO OUT JUST A LITTLE.

THE RESULT WAS AMAZING, WENT OUT FOR A TEST RUN TO SEE WHAT DIFFERENCE THE CALCULATIONS AND AMENDMENTS HAD MADE AND WOW, INCREDIBLE - ALL PROBLEMS SOLVED AND THE HANDLING HAS BEEN ENHANCED.

ALSO WORTH MENTIONING IS THAT WE GOT THE CARS CORNER WEIGHTS PERFECTED TO A FASHION ON ITS OWN WITHOUT ME IN THE CAR, I THEN GOT INTO THE CAR WHILST IT WAS STILL ON THE TEST BEDS AND THE CAR WENT ALL OVER THE PLACE AGAIN. GARY THEN AMENDED SOME MORE SUSPENSION SETTINGS WITH ME IN THE CAR AND WITHIN ANOTHER 10 MINUTES IT WAS BALANCED WITH ME SITTING IN THE CAR!

THE RESULT IS THAT MY CAR IS NOW PERFECTLY BALANCED AS IT CAN BE WITH THE INCLUSION OF ME SITTING IN THE CAR FOR REAL TIME RESULTS.

MY CAR WEIGHS 1715 KILOS WITH ME IN THE DRIVERS SEAT

I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT ANYONE THAT DOES THE TRACKDAYS OR SPORTING EVENTS OR THAT HAVE SOME SMALL HANDLING OR 'UNCERTAINTY' PROBLEMS GET DOWN TO GARYS AND HAVE A CHECK OVER ON THE SCALES AND HAVE A TWEEK HERE AND THERE TO SOLVE THEM, IF ANYTHING ITS BLOODY INTERESTING SEEING THE CORNER WEIGHT DIFFERENCES ON YOUR CAR.

REALLY INTERESTING DAY DOWN THERE TODAY, LOTS LEARNED

I THINK THE GANG THAT WERE DOWN THERE TODAY WILL ALSO AGREE

WELL DONE GARY.

polarbearit · 9th November 2002, 08:37 PM

Sounds very interesting...

Shame Gary is so far away!

(PS Please Find Caps Lock

)

Mycroft · 9th November 2002, 09:05 PM

Great stuff, should be kept 'somewhere safe' for future ref. adjusting the apparent weight at each corner in this manner can make some startling improvements, anyone who is serious about tuning their suspension fully should beat a path to Garys' door.

±10kgs should be enough, no-one can 'feel' any difference at less than that and the only way you can detect the improvement is in some marginal track times, but all the way to the ±10kgs even the most inexperienced driver would feel the gain.

m4tt_c · 9th November 2002, 09:12 PM

i saw them doing this at graham hathaway racing on one of there race cars.

wondered what it was all about

TOKYO · 10th November 2002, 09:06 AM

but don't forget to get it re set-up after the burns are shaved

.

glen

Andy Barnes · 13th November 2002, 07:46 PM

HAD A CHANCE TO GET THE R34 SOME STICK TODAY AFTER THIS SESSION AND THE DIFFERENCE IS RADICAL AT HIGH SPEED BRAKING

Peter · 13th November 2002, 11:52 PM

In what way, radical Andy?

Andy Barnes · 14th November 2002, 12:06 AM

PETER
AS I SAID IN THE FIRST POST, I HAD SOME SERIOUS HIGH SPEED BRAKING ISSUES AND THE CAR DIVING IN DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS AND SERIOUS DIPPING OF THE NEARSIDE FRONT CORNER OF THE CAR ESPECIALLY WHEN GOING ROUND A BEND AND BRAKING ON THE RARE OCCASIONS YOU HAVE TO ON THE ROAD WHICH IS WHERE MOST OF MY WEIGHT PROBLEM WAS ONCE GARY PUT IT ON THE SCALES. FINALLY GIVE IT SOME TODAY IN ANGER AND THE DIFFERENCE IS REMARKABLE, ITS MOSTLY ALL GONE, I STILL HAVE A 4 KILO WEIGHT DIFFERENCE BUT WILL PUT BACK ON WHEN I HAVE MORE TIME TO PERFECT IT.

I BELIEVE GARY IS MAKING UP SHIMS FOR THOSE WITHOUT ADJUSTABLE RIDE HEIGHT SUSPENSION SO IT CAN BE USED ON ALL CARS NOT JUST ONES WITH TRICK DAMPER SETUPS.

Peter · 14th November 2002, 12:17 AM

Did you have those problems at Brands or just after you altered your suspension settings?

Btw, have a good time away, think of us poor sods stuck here in the pissing rain.

Andy Barnes · 14th November 2002, 12:28 AM

HAD THEM TBH AFTER CHANGING THE SPRINGS FIRST TIME ROUND WHEN I HARDENED THE SUSPENSION IT CAME MORE APPARENT. CHANGING THESE FOR THE FULL DAMPER AND SPRING KIT BROUGHT IT ON FURTHER, I HAD IT A BRANDS BUT NOWHERE NEAR AS BAD AS WHEN I LOWERED THE RIDE HEIGHT WEEK BEFORE LAST, ALTHOUGH THE RIDE HEIGHT WAS MEASURED EXACTLY THE SAME ON ALL SHOCKS AND THE HEIGHT WAS PERFECT FOR WHAT I WANTED ( A PARTICULAR FRONT TO REAR ANGLE ) IT MADE THE CAR EVEN WORSE TO THE POINT OF TERRIBLE SPEED WOBBLE AFTER 120 MPH WHICH WAS SCAREY.

THE INTERESTING TRHING WAS THE SCALES JUST SHOWED THE PROBLEM IN ABOUT 3 MINUTES AND GARY WAS ABLE TO CORRECT IT, OBVIOUSLY IT WAS A LITTLE BIT OF FICKING ABOUT JACKING THE CAR UP AND CHANGING THE RIDE HEIGHT WHEEL BY WHEEL TO GET IT PERFECT BUT THE END RESULT WAS GREAT.

I HONESTLY WISH I HAD DONE IT AGES AGO, ITS A HARD EXPERIENCE TO EXPLAIN IN WORDS (THE PROBLEM IT SOLVED ) BUT IT JUST GOT RID OF THE UNCERTAINTY AND WOBBLE UNDER BRAKING AND HIGH SPEED AUTOBAHN USE ON THOSE LOVELY FAST AUTOBAHN CORNERS WHEN YOU GET A FEW BUMPS ON THE ROAD ON A CORNER AND THE CAR FEELS TO GET LIGHT ETC. GETS A LITTLE TWITCHY.

REMIND ME TO SHOW YOU IN ACTIONS WHEN I SEE YOUI NEXT TO EXPLAIN PROPERLY

woosh & go · 15th November 2002, 08:27 PM

Will get this checked next time the car goes in.

Andy Barnes · 29th November 2002, 06:27 PM

DOWN AT GARYS TOMORROW FOR ANOTHER WEIGH UP, THIS TIME ON OUR SUBARU, IF ANYONE WANTS TO SEE IT IN ACTION, COME DOWN AND CHECK IT OUT.

ITS FAB.

9th November 2002, 07:46 PM	#1 (permalink)
Andy Barnes New Users Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Sheerness Posts: 3,150	Tipping The Scale HI ALL, CORNER WEIGHING I AM ON ABOUT... JUST GOT BACK FROM GARY'S TONIGHT, WENT DOWN THERE TO SOLVE SOME SERIOUS HANDLING PROBLEMS I HAVE BEEN EXPERIENCING OVER THE PAST WEEK AFTER CHANGING SOME SUSPENSION SETTINGS AND WHEELS I HAVE ALWAYS HAD HANDLING PROBLEMS WHEN UNDER SEVERE BRAKING, NOTHING TO DO WITH THE BRAKES BUT MORE OF THE CAR DIVING AND BECOMING UNSTEADY FROM VERY HIGH SPEEDS, COUPLED WITH MY RECENT SPEED WOBBLING I HAD TO SORT IT OUT. GARY HAS HIS NEW CORNER WEIGHT TESTING GEAR SET UP AT THE WORKSHOP WHICH TO EXPLAIN IN BRIEF FOR THOSE WHOM DONT KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT IS PUTTING MEASURING SCALE ALUMINIUM PADS UNDER EACH WHEEL WHICH READS THE WEIGHT ON THAT WHEEL AND COMBINES ALL FOUR WEIGHTS AT THE CENTRAL GIZMO BOX TO SHOW TOTAL WEIGHT OF THE CAR AND EACH WEIGHT AT EACH WHEEL IN BOTH KILOS AND PERCENTAGE IN DIGITAL FORM. I WAS AMAZED TO SEE JUST HOW FAR OUT MY CAR WAS, IT WAS 80 KILOS OUT OF TRUE FROM CORNER TO CORNER WHICH IS ABOUT THE SAME WEIGHT MY ACTUAL PERSON ( NEARLY 13 STONE), JUST IMAGINE THE EFFECTS OF HAVING SOMEONE SITTING OVER ONE WHEEL ON A CORNER EVERYTIME YOU TAKE A CORNER OR BRAKE, THE PROBLEM WAS IDENTIFIED IN ABOUT 2 MINUTES! THEN GARY SET ABOUT CHANGING THE CARS WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION BY ADJUSTING THE PLATFORMS ON EACH SHOCK ABSORBER ( RIDE HEIGHT) WHICH IN TURN BEGINS TO LIFT OR LOWER EACH CORNER UNTIL A HAPPY MEDIUM OF WEIGHT IS ACHEIVED. AFTER ABOUT 40 MINUTES WE SCALED DOWN THE DISTRIBUTION TO BE WITHIN 4 KILOS DIFFERENCE WHICH IS STILL NOT PERFECT BUT I DIDNT HAVE TIME TO PERFECT IS AS I HAD TO GET HOME. I AM CERTAIN THAT ANOTHER 20 MINUTES OF FINE TUNING WOULD HAVE SEEN THE CARS WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION PERFECT IN THE SAME SESSION GARY ALSO ALTERED MY ' TOE IN ' AS IT WAS ALSO OUT JUST A LITTLE. THE RESULT WAS AMAZING, WENT OUT FOR A TEST RUN TO SEE WHAT DIFFERENCE THE CALCULATIONS AND AMENDMENTS HAD MADE AND WOW, INCREDIBLE - ALL PROBLEMS SOLVED AND THE HANDLING HAS BEEN ENHANCED. ALSO WORTH MENTIONING IS THAT WE GOT THE CARS CORNER WEIGHTS PERFECTED TO A FASHION ON ITS OWN WITHOUT ME IN THE CAR, I THEN GOT INTO THE CAR WHILST IT WAS STILL ON THE TEST BEDS AND THE CAR WENT ALL OVER THE PLACE AGAIN. GARY THEN AMENDED SOME MORE SUSPENSION SETTINGS WITH ME IN THE CAR AND WITHIN ANOTHER 10 MINUTES IT WAS BALANCED WITH ME SITTING IN THE CAR! THE RESULT IS THAT MY CAR IS NOW PERFECTLY BALANCED AS IT CAN BE WITH THE INCLUSION OF ME SITTING IN THE CAR FOR REAL TIME RESULTS. MY CAR WEIGHS 1715 KILOS WITH ME IN THE DRIVERS SEAT I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT ANYONE THAT DOES THE TRACKDAYS OR SPORTING EVENTS OR THAT HAVE SOME SMALL HANDLING OR 'UNCERTAINTY' PROBLEMS GET DOWN TO GARYS AND HAVE A CHECK OVER ON THE SCALES AND HAVE A TWEEK HERE AND THERE TO SOLVE THEM, IF ANYTHING ITS BLOODY INTERESTING SEEING THE CORNER WEIGHT DIFFERENCES ON YOUR CAR. REALLY INTERESTING DAY DOWN THERE TODAY, LOTS LEARNED I THINK THE GANG THAT WERE DOWN THERE TODAY WILL ALSO AGREE WELL DONE GARY.

9th November 2002, 09:05 PM	#3 (permalink)
Mycroft Banned Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Up someones nose, apparently Posts: 3,561	Great stuff, should be kept 'somewhere safe' for future ref. adjusting the apparent weight at each corner in this manner can make some startling improvements, anyone who is serious about tuning their suspension fully should beat a path to Garys' door. ±10kgs should be enough, no-one can 'feel' any difference at less than that and the only way you can detect the improvement is in some marginal track times, but all the way to the ±10kgs even the most inexperienced driver would feel the gain. Last edited by Mycroft; 9th November 2002 at 09:39 PM.

10th November 2002, 09:06 AM	#5 (permalink)
TOKYO GTR Register Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Bordering Insanity Posts: 3,472	Sounds good stuff Dirk but don't forget to get it re set-up after the burns are shaved . glen

13th November 2002, 07:46 PM	#6 (permalink)
Andy Barnes New Users Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Sheerness Posts: 3,150	FINALLY HAD A CHANCE TO GET THE R34 SOME STICK TODAY AFTER THIS SESSION AND THE DIFFERENCE IS RADICAL AT HIGH SPEED BRAKING

14th November 2002, 12:06 AM	#8 (permalink)
Andy Barnes New Users Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Sheerness Posts: 3,150	RADICAL PETER AS I SAID IN THE FIRST POST, I HAD SOME SERIOUS HIGH SPEED BRAKING ISSUES AND THE CAR DIVING IN DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS AND SERIOUS DIPPING OF THE NEARSIDE FRONT CORNER OF THE CAR ESPECIALLY WHEN GOING ROUND A BEND AND BRAKING ON THE RARE OCCASIONS YOU HAVE TO ON THE ROAD WHICH IS WHERE MOST OF MY WEIGHT PROBLEM WAS ONCE GARY PUT IT ON THE SCALES. FINALLY GIVE IT SOME TODAY IN ANGER AND THE DIFFERENCE IS REMARKABLE, ITS MOSTLY ALL GONE, I STILL HAVE A 4 KILO WEIGHT DIFFERENCE BUT WILL PUT BACK ON WHEN I HAVE MORE TIME TO PERFECT IT. I BELIEVE GARY IS MAKING UP SHIMS FOR THOSE WITHOUT ADJUSTABLE RIDE HEIGHT SUSPENSION SO IT CAN BE USED ON ALL CARS NOT JUST ONES WITH TRICK DAMPER SETUPS.

9th November 2002, 08:37 PM	#2 (permalink)
polarbearit GTR Register Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Wiltshire Posts: 1,636	Sounds very interesting... Shame Gary is so far away! (PS Please Find Caps Lock )

9th November 2002, 09:12 PM	#4 (permalink)
m4tt_c GTR Register Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: essex Posts: 381	i saw them doing this at graham hathaway racing on one of there race cars. wondered what it was all about

13th November 2002, 11:52 PM	#7 (permalink)
Peter GTR Register Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: East Sussex. Posts: 9,029	In what way, radical Andy?

14th November 2002, 12:17 AM	#9 (permalink)
Peter GTR Register Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: East Sussex. Posts: 9,029	Did you have those problems at Brands or just after you altered your suspension settings? Btw, have a good time away, think of us poor sods stuck here in the pissing rain.

14th November 2002, 12:28 AM	#10 (permalink)
Andy Barnes New Users Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Sheerness Posts: 3,150	ALWAYS HAD THEM TBH AFTER CHANGING THE SPRINGS FIRST TIME ROUND WHEN I HARDENED THE SUSPENSION IT CAME MORE APPARENT. CHANGING THESE FOR THE FULL DAMPER AND SPRING KIT BROUGHT IT ON FURTHER, I HAD IT A BRANDS BUT NOWHERE NEAR AS BAD AS WHEN I LOWERED THE RIDE HEIGHT WEEK BEFORE LAST, ALTHOUGH THE RIDE HEIGHT WAS MEASURED EXACTLY THE SAME ON ALL SHOCKS AND THE HEIGHT WAS PERFECT FOR WHAT I WANTED ( A PARTICULAR FRONT TO REAR ANGLE ) IT MADE THE CAR EVEN WORSE TO THE POINT OF TERRIBLE SPEED WOBBLE AFTER 120 MPH WHICH WAS SCAREY. THE INTERESTING TRHING WAS THE SCALES JUST SHOWED THE PROBLEM IN ABOUT 3 MINUTES AND GARY WAS ABLE TO CORRECT IT, OBVIOUSLY IT WAS A LITTLE BIT OF FICKING ABOUT JACKING THE CAR UP AND CHANGING THE RIDE HEIGHT WHEEL BY WHEEL TO GET IT PERFECT BUT THE END RESULT WAS GREAT. I HONESTLY WISH I HAD DONE IT AGES AGO, ITS A HARD EXPERIENCE TO EXPLAIN IN WORDS (THE PROBLEM IT SOLVED ) BUT IT JUST GOT RID OF THE UNCERTAINTY AND WOBBLE UNDER BRAKING AND HIGH SPEED AUTOBAHN USE ON THOSE LOVELY FAST AUTOBAHN CORNERS WHEN YOU GET A FEW BUMPS ON THE ROAD ON A CORNER AND THE CAR FEELS TO GET LIGHT ETC. GETS A LITTLE TWITCHY. REMIND ME TO SHOW YOU IN ACTIONS WHEN I SEE YOUI NEXT TO EXPLAIN PROPERLY

15th November 2002, 08:27 PM	#11 (permalink)
woosh & go GTR Register Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Surrey Posts: 172	Nice one Will get this checked next time the car goes in.

29th November 2002, 06:27 PM	#12 (permalink)
Andy Barnes New Users Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Sheerness Posts: 3,150	BACK DOWN AT GARYS TOMORROW FOR ANOTHER WEIGH UP, THIS TIME ON OUR SUBARU, IF ANYONE WANTS TO SEE IT IN ACTION, COME DOWN AND CHECK IT OUT. ITS FAB.

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