Clutch & Engine Block Questions

[Alecci]

Hi people,

I'm looking for a clutch that can handle up to 800 PS. The most important thing is that it should be easy-handled, and secondly it shouldn't be too expensive at least.

So far I've been looking at the Nismo Super Coppermix Twin Plate Clutch, as it should safely be able to handle the power I was originally aiming for. I had very good experiences from the single plate Coppermix Clutch I had on my old R33 GT-R, and thought this one should have the same characteristics. Only problem is it can only handle about 640-670 PS.

Secondly, I'm curious as to how much power the engine block of the R34 GT-R can safely handle? Some say 600 PS and some say 800 PS. So who's telling the truth?

[DODGY]

OS Giken twin carbon will handle the power and is easy to use. Not sure on price.

Graham

[hipogtr]

Not sure where you heard that the Nismo twin super coppermix is a safe 800hp clutch when Nismo themselves rate it at 600hp. Big difference. Unfortunately, advertised hp rating of clutches are difficult to rely on as some over rate while others are conservative - why they don't advertise torque numbers instead is strange. For 800hp, you would want to try a top of the line ATS twin carbon with a 1350kg pressure plate or a standard triple plate from one of the mainstream manufacturers (e.g. OS Giken, ORC, etc.). Neither option is cheap unless you can get them low mileage used.

Cya O!

[Bean]

There is a competition version of the super coppermx twin which is rated around 780PS....otherwise it's just as hipogtr said.

[Alecci]

It seems I may have caused a misunderstanding. I was originally aiming for 600 PS, and that was when I was looking at the Nismo Twin Plate. Although I've seen that clutch rated to different numbers between 640 PS and 670 PS, I've never seen or stated that it could handle 800 PS. But I'm probably the only one to blame for that misunderstanding.

I thought I would need either a twin plate carbon clutch or a triple clutch. I don't have the figures in my head, but spontaneously I think the carbon twin plate would be the more expensive option. So which triple plate would be most drivable?

Otherwise I'm, as always, very grateful for your assistance.

What about the second question? Any takers? =)

[tyndago]

So you want good looking, rich father, and great in bed ? Oh wait, clutches. 800 hp, easy driving, and less expensive.

Pick 2, you don't get them all.


600 hp is about where the twin plate is good for. Any more than that and they start to slip. If you up the pressure plate rating, it gets harder to drive. Harder materials means harder to drive. Carbon clutches are easy to drive, but the price goes up.

http://tyndago.googlepages.com/clutch

I have run the ATS as a twin and a triple. I have run lots of Nismo twins. Nismo triples. OS, ORC, HKS triples, Tilton triple carbon. Even the quad plate clutch that was in the R348.

Any triple is a little difficult to drive. Takes some getting used to. Some are worse than others. The OS clutches weren't bad as a triple. The HKS clutches were horrible as a triple.

We run a Tilton triple plate carbon in our race car. True carbon on carbon. Truely expensive clutch and flywheel setup.

[Alecci]

Hi mate,

I knew it wouldn't be cheap, but in my head I tend to differentiate between expensive and too expensive. I appreciate the humour though, with your permission I'll keep that in mind when/if someone asks me a similar question.

You provided an answer of the type I was looking for though. I'll check some OS Giken Triples up then. Many thanks for your help.

[shanef]

In australia there is a clutch builder by the name of Jim berry (business name RACE CLUTCH). He custom builds clutches for alot of the big power running cars that frequent the drags and what not. Some examples are the Millenium Motorsports supra ~900hp, Subzero Soara ~850hp, and some other guys who run in the ANDRA comp running from 500hp plus, now these guys are only running a single plate clutch, custom built by Jim berry. Seeing as though its a single plate clutch, it is still very easy to drive on the street.

I have just bought his "Full Monty" single plate clutch and it will be good for upto 1000hp, all for only AUD$1300. This will be fitted to my rb26/30 R32 gtr and will be making some big power.

If you are really interested, he does clutches for race teams all over the world and im sure he would be more than happy to help anyone out.

[tyndago]

Originally Posted by shanef

I have just bought his "Full Monty" single plate clutch and it will be good for upto 1000hp, all for only AUD$1300. This will be fitted to my rb26/30 R32 gtr and will be making some big power.

I would be interested to see how it works out.

All wheel drive cars are especially hard on driveline, little slippage = broken parts.

Supra guys can run all kinds of single/ twin plates at 600,700,800+ hp. Supras can run a Getrag and do 8 second quarter miles. I can make a twin plate slip at 600 whp in a GT-R. I can break the shifting balks in a Getrag with a 500 hp race car.

[shanef]

tyndago
I can make a twin plate slip at 600 whp in a GT-R.

That would be because they aren't designed all that well from factory.

If your after another opinion that is respected very widely, give jim a ring, he loves talking clutches so expect to be on the phone for awhile though lol

[Alecci]

I've been looking at a ATS Type-R Carbon Twin Plate Clutch w/ flywheel, and it's not much more expensive than the Nismo clutch, so I'll probably go for that ATS one instead. I guess I'll need to convert the push/pull thingy then?

Still looking for an answer to my second question. I'd really appreciate your thoughts on the matter.

[tyndago]

Originally Posted by Alecci

Secondly, I'm curious as to how much power the engine block of the R34 GT-R can safely handle? Some say 600 PS and some say 800 PS. So who's telling the truth?

Blocks don't handle power at all.


No one can realistically tell you it will handle xxx amount of power, because next week someone will make 10 more hp or someone will blow one up completely stock.

If you detonate on the motor will will kill it at stock horsepower. If you run it out of oil and spin a rod bearing, it will put a hole in the side of the block.

If everything is good and perfect, I have run 700 rwhp on an all stock motor. Mike from D Sport ran about 800 on all all stock motor.

The guys from Xtreme did about 1400 rwhp on a stock block that had been filled.

[hipogtr]

Originally Posted by tyndago

The OS clutches weren't bad as a triple. The HKS clutches were horrible as a triple.

I've had both these clutches and Sean's assessment is spot on. Everything I've heard about ATS has been good so your current choice sounds good.

As for the factory short block strength (not the block itself), a reliable 600-650hp is the common number I've heard. But as has already been said, there are outliers all over the place when it comes to this.

Cya O!

[tyndago]

Originally Posted by hipogtr

I've had both these clutches and Sean's assessment is spot on. Everything I've heard about ATS has been good so your current choice sounds good.

I wore out a ATS clutch, due to install error. I didn't give it enough free play, and I wore a $600 clutch disk in about a week.

The ATS is not a true carbon/carbon clutch. Its a carbon on metal clutch. Exedy sells the same thing- carbon on metal. Exedy also does have a carbon/carbon thats pretty expensive. The Tilton clutch we have for the race car is so sexy. You could mount it on the wall under glass. So small and light. Plus more expensive than most art. True carbon on carbon. The Tilton is about 15 lbs total, where the Twin plate clutche/flywheels are about 35 lbs. (have to look up the exact numbers)

[skykit]

tilton twin plate is good choice...not that pricey either if you buy fom either usa, aus or nz