Rubbish american muscle cars!

[SkylineUSA]

Originally Posted by roadie

The big three seem to be completely stumped by the tuner phenomenom.

You can't be serious

The States have a huge aftermarket, its just that more guys do their own mods, rather than take the cars to likes of Abbey, RK, etc. for a simple oil cooler install, let alone a complete engine rebuild. They also share their engine mod informaion a lot more freely there than do here as well.

[skyline69_uk]

Originally Posted by SkylineUSA

You can't be serious

The States have a huge aftermarket, its just that more guys do their own mods, rather than take the cars to likes of Abbey, RK, etc. for a simple oil cooler install, let alone a complete engine rebuild. They also share their engine mod informaion a lot more freely there than do here as well.

That's because a big V8 is a hell of a lot easier to work on than high tech engines packed into an engine bay. I have a good engine rebuild book which is aimed at small block(!) pushrod V8s mainly and the whole thing is aimed at the home mechanic and the engines are pushing out over 400bhp and they seem to think you and your mate can do all the work on it with the right tools . It's a different culture and as the V8s have been around so long the tuning path is very well polished and things only go wrong if you're a numpty.

[SkylineUSA]

Look at the 4.6 or the LS1, which is even a bigger pain the butt to work on that the RB26. I just finished some engine work on 05 Mustang, trust me they are a pain.

[Lono9885]

Just thought I'd say that if you had watched to the end of the vid you'd see those runs were all made at 13psi which equated to 650 odd hp and the 10.9 wasn't that bad considering his crap launches. It said the 25 and 30psi runs will come later so I think he might actually suprise you.

Ad

[SkylineUSA]

Dailed in that Mustang will beat any GTR on this island in the 1/4 And I would bet that his Mustang in not the fastest in his city.

I do not favore V8s over I6, I love my GTRs. Its just belittling other cars for the simple fact that they are different, is not valid.

[Hamish]

Big engined American cars (e.g., Viper, Vette etc) are FAR more reliable than a GTR. The RB26 is far more stressed for a given amount of power. I've owned both and, while I loved the GTR, the reliability of a large NA engine can't be beaten. In terms of 1/4 mile times, road legal Vipers are now in the 7s...

[skyline69_uk]

Originally Posted by SkylineUSA

Its just belittling other cars for the simple fact that they are different, is not valid.

Totally agree, I hate that too.

Engines etc are designed to be "Fit for Purpose" but the purpose is always different but some people don't seem to get that .

You do get a lot of that crap on USA forums too. I love going on just to start an argument by throwing in lines like an I4 turbo is far better than a V8 etc but it's just for badness - Bo and Co always start calling you a "ricer" lol.

[R33_GTS-t]

Originally Posted by SkylineUSA

What kind of MPG does a GTR get? around 21mpg? Vetts get 28mpg with over twice the displacement. Not to mention lots more torque so you don't have to spin the hell out of it from a dig.

I wouldn't believe those figures. Don't forget the 'vette has a huge top gear, just so that they can bypass the fuel-guzzler tax.

6 litres, 28mpg. Think for yourself man.

Not having a go at US cars, the Z06 (and soon Z07) is great but a 6.0 or 7.0 isn't going to get better economy than a 2.6.

[skyline69_uk]

Originally Posted by R33_GTS-t

I wouldn't believe those figures. Don't forget the 'vette has a huge top gear, just so that they can bypass the fuel-guzzler tax.

6 litres, 28mpg. Think for yourself man.

Not having a go at US cars, the Z06 (and soon Z07) is great but a 6.0 or 7.0 isn't going to get better economy than a 2.6.

At a steady 56mph they get about 26mpg according to owners which for a big cap NA is amazing and they are getting an average of about 21mpg for the 7 litre. Don't forget that the US gallon is less than ours too.

The 2.6 is performance turbocharged meaning it is always going to have a crap econ mpg on standard tests as the low compression ratio means that off boost the fuel econ is sh*t (the LS2 has a 10.9:1 ratio and revs to 6500rpm). If driven hard or at motorway speeds 75mph+ then there would probably be little difference.

The combined cycle for a M3 is only about 27mpg and once again owners who drive the car hard are getting an average 24mpg over a week! Turbos owners (Scoob/Evo/GTR) as the owners will tell you can only dream about those figures .

There is a nice run down on the LS2 engine here...

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com..._look_feature/

[SkylineUSA]

Originally Posted by R33_GTS-t

I wouldn't believe those figures. Don't forget the 'vette has a huge top gear, just so that they can bypass the fuel-guzzler tax.

6 litres, 28mpg. Think for yourself man.

Not having a go at US cars, the Z06 (and soon Z07) is great but a 6.0 or 7.0 isn't going to get better economy than a 2.6.

If I post specs, I want it to be accurate. Believe these figures;

2006 CORVETTE Z06

Base price: $89,900

Engine: 7.0-litre LS7 Gen IV V8

Output: 505 hp @6,300 rpm; torque 470 lb.-ft @ 4,800 rpm; engine redline, 7,000 rpm

Transmission: Six-speed manual

Layout: Front engine, rear-wheel drive, two-seat sports coupe

Fuel ratings (Natural Resources Canada): City, 14.3 litres per 100 km (20 mpg); highway, 8.2 litres per 100 km (35 mpg); combined city-highway driving, 11.6 (24 mpg) That is a US gallon as well. I rounded up for the UK gallon. My GTR is 21 highway, the Vette on a UK gallon would be very close to 40mpg then. Do the math.


http://www.lfpress.com/cgi-bin/publi...icles&s=wheels

[skyline69_uk]

Some good stuff here too http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...s_differences/

They also run in V4 mode if not under strain so fuel econ is not an issue - ba$tards .

[R33_GTS-t]

Originally Posted by SkylineUSA

Believe these figures;

2006 CORVETTE Z06

Base price: $89,900

Engine: 7.0-litre LS7 Gen IV V8

Output: 505 hp @6,300 rpm; torque 470 lb.-ft @ 4,800 rpm; engine redline, 7,000 rpm

Transmission: Six-speed manual

Layout: Front engine, rear-wheel drive, two-seat sports coupe

Fuel ratings (Natural Resources Canada): City, 14.3 litres per 100 km (20 mpg); highway, 8.2 litres per 100 km (35 mpg); combined city-highway driving, 11.6 (24 mpg) That is a US gallon as well. I rounded up for the UK gallon. My GTR is 21 highway, the Vette on a UK gallon would be very close to 40mpg then. Do the math.


http://www.lfpress.com/cgi-bin/publi...icles&s=wheels

I actually get 20+mpg from a tank with my GTR driving it fairly enthusiastically. With a 7.0 and the same manner of driving, I'd get about 12mpg at best. Those test figures mean nothing to me.

Yes turbo engines have a low compression ratio and a restriction in the exhaust (namely a turbo), which is bad for cruising, but they also have smaller cylinders and less cylinders to fill with petrol. The base consumption of a 7.0L engine is staggering.

If GM want to loan me a Z06 to test this point, I'll be quite happy to, but until then I don't buy those figures.

I was once forced to stick to 70-80 due to heavy traffic for a long 2-way motorway journey and made 30+mpg. Whilst banned my car was driven by a more conservative driver who made 27mpg combined.

[SkylineUSA]

Originally Posted by R33_GTS-t

I actually get 20+mpg from a tank with my GTR driving it fairly enthusiastically. With a 7.0 and the same manner of driving, I'd get about 12mpg at best. Those test figures mean nothing to me.

Yes turbo engines have a low compression ratio and a restriction in the exhaust (namely a turbo), which is bad for cruising, but they also have smaller cylinders and less cylinders to fill with petrol. The base consumption of a 7.0L engine is staggering.

If GM want to loan me a Z06 to test this point, I'll be quite happy to, but until then I don't buy those figures.

I was once forced to stick to 70-80 due to heavy traffic for a long 2-way motorway journey and made 30+mpg. Whilst banned my car was driven by a more conservative driver who made 27mpg combined.

Of course you can suck fuel on a Z06, but you can do the same with an RB26 and get less than 12mpg.

I have friends with Z06s, and they can get over 30mpg on the highway cruising at 70mph. And like I said before that is with the smaller US gallon. Sorry if you do not believe it, but its the truth. Heck, I do not like Chevy's, but you have to give credit were credit is do.

[R33_GTS-t]

Originally Posted by SkylineUSA

Of course you can suck fuel on a Z06, but you can do the same with an RB26 and get less than 12mpg.

I have friends with Z06s, and they can get over 30mpg on the highway cruising at 70mph. And like I said before that is with the smaller US gallon. Sorry if you do not believe it, but its the truth. Heck, I do not like Chevy's, but you have to give credit were credit is do.

So with a bigger English Gallon, they'd get 35mpg, or about the same as a 2.0 Mondeo.

As I say, I don't hate the cars, I just don't buy the figures. If it was possible, they'd have a 3.0 that makes 70mpg.

[SkylineUSA]

You forgot about the over 500hp part The Mondeo does not come close to that.