Are Skyline more powerfull than GTOs? Dynoshoot out!

[kismetcapitan]

where's the weak link in the GTO drivetrain?

I've personally driven the VR4 (we called it the 3000GT VR4 in the US, and yeah maybe it is the American roads but that car absolutely rules the highways. Don't need any tuning - it cruises with solid authority and is comfortable and rock stable.

My Skyline is just as stable, but it also rips the fillings out of your teeth. I wouldn't slag the GTO, I found it to be far more practical and usable than my Z32 twin turbo.

But it's true, I bought a Skyline over a GTO, even though it cost twice as much and that's before I started tuning it because:

- I thought the drivetrain couldn't take massive horsepower, and I wanted a 600bhp car.
- I thought the fulltime 4WD made the GTO a understeering handling nightmare on the track
- I thought the engine in general would be far less reliable than the "bulletproof" RB26.

I am curious to know though - how fragile is the GTO 3 liter? Lord knows my RB26 isn't the most reliable thing around...

[gtrlux]

Actually I like the GTO Spyder, it's one of the coolest cars of that time to drive open trough the beach in California, and this for a reasonable budget.

[tweenierob]

Ive just finished a GTO i have been building for a while, 3.1 on hybrid twins and an AEM installation.... 480hp and 520ftlb at 1.2bar. It pulls hard, but has by far the most dangerous suspension known to man. I need to look into a suspension package as it is the scariest car i have driven at high speeds.
A friend of mine owns the car and has got used the handling, scares the shit outta me!!

On the flip side...

I would put my car against any GTR in the UK that the owner did the work on their own car

Bold statement

Rob.

[GTO NEMESIS]

Originally Posted by tweenierob

Bold statement

Rob.

Very

But there is only one way to find out

Re your suspesion comments, yep! They are like boats as stock, big boats, maybe even a boat that has sunk.
I have tein's on mine and it is very tought, point it and it goes.
Mine did pretty well at TOTB4, beat a few 4WD GTR's too.

Overall people do need to remember that the GTO was built as a tourer and not a sports car like the GTR.

Mark

[tweenierob]

What spec is yours?

Rob

[GTO NEMESIS]

Originally Posted by tweenierob

What spec is yours?

Rob

Spec as in current mods? Or spec as in orgional model type?

I may as well add the spec list of mods as I think that maybe what you mean:

GTO NEMESIS Mitsubishi GTO TT Modifications list
1992 GTO TT Black

Engine:

6G72 Serdi blue printed block bored and plateaux honed to 92.5 mm with steel deck plate, Deck Heights planed, Crank journals realigned and plateaux honed, block sonically tested and hot tanked.
.25 stainless O rings
Mitsubishi forged crank, factory spec statically & dynamically balanced
Cevlitte Bearings
ARP Head Studs tightened to 97 LBS/FT
Crower H Beam Rods Pt No. B93763PF / C to C 5.548 / B.E. Bore 2.086 / Pin 22mm – Crower rod bots
Wiseco 92.5mm forged pistons Pt No. K570M925, coated and weight matched, Wiseco Rings
Technical Tuning Custom 2mm copper head gaskets
OEM Water pump, Oil Pump, pulleys / tensioners & belts
Topline gasket set
Custom Oil feeds
Goodridge Oil Return
Morosso 2L oil accumulator


Cylinder Heads:
Stage 3 Self Ported cylinder heads, 6mm width, 5mm height - heads flow benched and cc matched
Phosphor Bronze plateaux honed Valve guides, Serdi UK Spec
Nitrated 3 angle Serdi Valve seats


Cams/Valve Train
Dynamic Racing custom Race grind cams
DR High Rev spring and retainer kit


Valves
Ferrea Competition Plus Valves (Super Alloy) – 1mm oversized

Exhaust valves-
Pt No. F1854P
Head Diameter 31.5 mm
Stem Diameter 6.55 mm
Overall length 105.5 mm
Tip length 3.8 mm
Details: 25° Flo 1mm oversize. Super Alloy

Intake valves
Pt No. F1852P
Head Diameter 36 mm
Stem Diameter 6.57 mm
Overall length 106.35 mm
Tip length 3.8 mm
Details: 25° Super Flo 1mm oversize

Top Line 99 spec Lifter/Lash Adjuster
Pt No. LIFMI6 with large oil wholes
New OEM Rockers


Turbo / Exhaust:
Garret GT42RS Turbo – MK Performance Spec’d
Custom 1.5” primary headers
Custom 2.25” secondary header
Turbosmart Ultragate 38 external wastegates with 18 PSI springs (two of)
4” custom downpipe
3.5” straight through custom Stainless steel exhaust with HKS Hiper Muffler can
4” exhaust V Band clamp
3.5” outlet V band clamp


Intake:
Custom Stainless Steel Filter
4” Aluminium cold air feed
Ported and matched upper plenum
Ported and matched lower plenum


Intercooler:
MB Performance Intercooler 3” inlet 3” outlet
MB Performance Stainless hardpipe kit
Samco 3”couplers and elbows
Samco 3.5” : 3” reducer
Mikalor 89-91mm clamps
Mikalor 91-95mm clamps
Amber Performance Dump Valve - red


Boost Control:
E-Boost 60 PSI twin solenoid controller


Engine Management:
Omex Technologies 710 Stand Alone Ecu
5 BAR MAP sensor
Omex crank angle sensor
Omex coolant temp sensor
Omex oil temp sensor


Ignition:
NGK leads
HKS DLI2 Twin Spark (2nd one)
New OEM Coil pack – PTU removed
NGK V Power Copper plugs – Heat range 8
Technical Tuning Zero Gauge earth kit


Fuel Delivery:
1000cc RC Injectors
Twin Walbro intank pumps
MB Performance 10an fuel lines
BMW Fuel cooler
FSE Power Boost valve FPR
KN Billet fuel filter
12mm lines from tank to filter
10mm return to tank line


Nitrous:
Nitrous Oxide Systems 150BHP Power Shot Fogger system controlled by the Omex ECU
NOS 11 Lbs Bottle
NOS Pressure Gauge
NOS Thermostatic heater blanket
Custom Pirtek braided nitrous line
MB Performance nitrous fuel lines


Propane:
IPO Propane system with low pressure warning light controlled by the Omex ECU Maplin arming toggles
9KG Orange Calor Gas bottle
Flame Pressure sensor & Gauge


Water Injection:
Aquamist MS1 system running single 0.7 Jet


Cooling:
PWR 2” Alloy radiator
Custom Stainless top rad pipe
Samco bottom rad hose
EWL Electric Water pump
Custom 3” stainless header tank
Custom flow through rad cap
Mocal Header tank silicon pipe
Samco heater matrix hoses
Mocal 16” slim line cooling fan
Mocal 14” slime line cooling fan
Amber Performance Oil cooler kit


Transmission:
Kormex 5 speed gearbox with LSD
Kormex 25 Spline Transfer Box
Mark Williams M300 Output shaft


Drive Train:
OS Giken Triple plate cerra-mettalic clutch
PST 2 piece carbon fibre prop shaft
Evil Empire prop shaft mounts


Supporting:
MB Performance billet engine mounts


Suspension:
Tein Coilovers
Tein adjustable dampers
Tein Pillowball mounts
Evil Empire Suspension bush kit
Evil Empire Subframe mount kit
Camskill droplinks


Brakes:
Rebuilt Mitsubishi callipers
Tarox 88 Groove disks front & rear
EBC Yellowstuff pads
Goodridge braided lines


Gauges:
AEM UGO Wideband gauge, Bosch sensor
SPA Electronic Fuel Pressure gauge with warning system
SPA Electronic Water Temp Gauge with warning system
SPA Electronic Oil Pressure Gauge with warning system
SPA Electronic Oil Temp Gauge with warning system
Auto Meter Pyrometer in rear bank
Apexi Boost Gauge
NOS Pressure Gauge
Greddy Oil filer sandwich plate
Amber Performance Digital Charge Temp Gauge
2 stage shift light


Engine Bay:
Evil Empire Injector Harness cover – red
Evil Empire Plenum plate – red
Amber Performance spark plug cover
Mocal Exhaust wrap - 120 Meters (dyed with food colouring)
Mocal sleeve/cable heat protectors
Mocal foil backed fireblankets
Custom Stainless Steel Heat shields
MING Candy Apple red powder coated front Cam Cover
Iver’s finest leaves from the local trees!


Interior:
Recaro Bucket seats on Recaro rails
Seatbelt race harness
Alloy gear lever
Custom short shifter
Momo Red leather Steering Wheel
800 BHP Stainless Steel door trims
Powder Fire Extinguishers X 2
Andy Luca neon/plasma dials
Nomad performance Pillar Pod
Gon4a stainless steel head unit / gauge plate
NOS, Propane arming switches & NOS bottle heater
GTech RR Performance meter with PASS software
Tom Tom 910 International GPS/SatNav


Exterior:
800 BHP Private Plate
99 Spec bumper*
Carbon Gelcoat Viper Duct bonnet*
99 Lights*
99 Indicators*
99 Rear combat wing*
99 sail panels*
Evil Empire 99 undertray and splash guard kit*
Custom Black/gold flip coachwork*
Titainum Windscreen Wipers
Technical Tuning graphics by High Street Signs


Wheels:
Hi Octane 109 finished in Hi Silver
Avon ZZ3 265/45/18 tyres


Audio System:
Panasonic single DIN touch screen head unit with 5 RCA outputs / 4 AUX inputs
Kicker 1200 RMS AMP (mono block)
Kicker 650 RMS AMP (digital 4 channel)
Kicker 250 RMS AMP (2 channel) X 2
Kicker 70 Band Pro Graphic Equalizer
Kicker 1000 AMP power caps X 4
Kicker Solar Baric 10” Square Subs X 3
Kicker SolarBaric 0 Gauge positive power cable
Kicker SolarBaric 0 Gauge negative power cable
Kicker Positive & Negative alloy battery clamps
Kicker 120 AMP circuit breaker
Kicker 140 AMP circuit breaker
Boston Acoustics Competition Pro 6.5 Mids & Tweeters
Boston Acoustics Competition Pro 6 x 9’s
Boston Acoustics Competition Pro 12” Sub in dashboard
Sony PS2 slim line system
4.5” TFT monitors X 4
HP In dash laptop
Phonoleads RCA leads x 8
Phonoleads under bonnet voltage display
Phonoleads under bonnet 120 AMP fuse holder
Custom Subwoofer enclosure
Custom boot build Custom rear side panels
Custom door panels


Removed / previously fitted:
DR650’s
Turbo Technics T35 hybrid Turbos
Forge Motorsport Alloy Actuators
MB performance custom stainless T4 headers
Pace uprated sidemount intercoolers
Samco boost pipes
Samco coolant pipes
Samco induction pipes
HKS Twin Mushroom filter
KN Monster Air filter
PTE 680cc Injectors
Evil Empire OEM engine mounts
E-Boost1 boost controller
Apexi SAFCII
Wiseco 92.5mm Pistons - destroyed!
Topline Metal head gaskets - blew
Cometic 1.5mm headgasket - blew
Cometic 2mm headgasket - blew
HKS DLI2 Twin Spark - Blew
PWR 2” Alloy Rad - blew
MB Performance FMIC twin 2” entry 3” exit
MB Performance Twin Turbo stainless hard pipe kit
Blitz Oil filter system
Nomad Dump Valve
Amber Performance Y Pipe
Denso Iridium IKR27’s - removed after 3 miles on dyno
Denso Iridium IKR23’s - removed after 20 miles on dyno
Swoosh Oil Temp Gauge
Swoosh Oil Pressure Gauge
Nomad AFR gauge
Auto Meter Carbon Water Temp Gauge
Nomad Charge Temp Gauge
EBC Turbo Groove Disks – warped in 2 weeks
EBC Redstuff pads - lasted 2 weeks
HKS Decat Pipe
HKS Downpipe
HKS Hiper Muffler
Cusco 1.2 BAR High pressure rad cap
Pioneer Head unit
Alpine Head unit
Infinity Reference 6” Mids & Tweeters
Infinity Kappa 6x9’s
Rockfordfosgate Power 400RMS 4 channel amp
Rockfordfosgate 15” Power DVC Sub
PocketLogger Monitoring software with OBD lead
Palm Tungsten T2 hand held unit
Tom Tom Bluetooth GPS/SatNav system running on Palm
Kormex Output shaft and coupler – removed now spare
Kormex Output shaft – destroyed X 3
Kormex 25 spline Transfer Box – removed now spare
Stock Gretag 5 speed gearbox – removed now spare
Flexilite Slim Line Fans in yellow – destroyed
10” Mocal Cooling Fans – removed now spare X2
LUK Clutch - slipped at 400 BHP
Clutchnet MFG 6 Puck cerra-metalic clutch with high pressure plate - Slipped at 600 LBS/FT
OS Giken Twin plate Cerra-metalic clutch - referbed kit but slipped at 500 LBS/FT


Sat waiting to be fitted:
Custom MB Performance Alloy Plenum*
Ford Lightning Super Charger
350BHP 3 stage Nitrous System
Custom 3.6L Forged internals (Crank, Rods, Pistons)
Blue printed 6G74 Block
PTS Carbon fibre Drive and Prop shafts

* denotes in progress item


I'm sure I will have forgoten some bits!

Mark

[skylinelee]

is that all.............?
hi mark
seems youve got a serious car there. have you a heat jacket thing for your gt42? ifso where did you get it ?
cheers
lee

[GTO NEMESIS]

Originally Posted by skylinelee

is that all.............?
hi mark
seems youve got a serious car there. have you a heat jacket thing for your gt42? ifso where did you get it ?
cheers
lee

Thank you.

Yes, I do have a jacket - just one of the many things I have forgotten to list on my spec sheet







I bought it from http://www.horsepowerinabox.com/HPIAB2/index.html

Had quite a few issues with delivery and I gave the guy a real hard time ops:
Turns out that he did send it when he said and Parcel Force (A UK delivery company) said they tried to deliver it when I was out. - They never left a card so the parcel went back to Australia. :shock:

The guy resent it at his cost but he wasn't happy about doing so.

Delivery issues aside, the product looks and feels excellent!
Once I have built up the G674 and got it all installed I will do some temp readings.

Mark

[GTO NEMESIS]

The engine bay and a video of the car pre tuning.
Starts with a photo history of the self build up and then some running footage.
http://www.technicaltuning.com/gtone...IS_Project.mov
(Right click save as)




Mark

[andy42uk]

This GTO stuff is all very good but.....
It is not Godzilla is it.
I'm getting near 400bhp atf on my DIY modded gts-t, it owes me about 4.5k in parts, and about 50 hours of my life, TINY in comparison...
I drive my car every day, and it gets a hard life and performs perfectly....
I like the GTO, but Skylines are just plain better, not for this or that, they almost spitfire-like in the use of parts and the way they are used, they make sense, they are meant to be fast, and driven fast day in day out....
Good luck to you, but if you are smart you will end up with a Skyline, it is logical.
Andy.

[skyline69_uk]

Originally Posted by GTO NEMESIS

Very

They are like boats as stock, big boats, maybe even a boat that has sunk.Overall people do need to remember that the GTO was built as a tourer and not a sports car like the GTR.

Exactly what I was saying Mark - great car for what it was designed to do but people forget that bit and just slag it off (aka Evo mag and Clarkson, and well... every other motoring mag too).

I looked at getting a 3000GT/GTO (amongst about a dozen other makes and models of cars from Scoobs, Evos, RX7s to M3s/M5s/VWR32/old 911) before selecting and importing my GT-R but after talking to some owners (and a tuner who hated the sight of them due to reliability problems) about them I reached the conclusion that GTOs were too heavy (200 fcuking kg more than my GT-R!), too underpowered for their weight as standard, too expensive to mod (I'm getting 300bhp per tonne for base model Ford Focus money), had weak diffs and too boaty for the UK roads without a suspension change BUT a very good car for the USA market (and it's highways) where they are also modded a fair bit and have a huge fan base with lots of respect.

They also look great (very nice indeed ) but are a LOT bigger in person than the pictures suggest and can be a right difficult car to find a parking space for according to owners lol.

The GT-R just made more sense for the money/bhp and it's drivability.

Nearly everyone on here will have a dyno for their car as we ALL take it very seriously Mark. Most of the big horsepower cars don't dyno anymore but I have been in the present of a 1100bhp+ GT-R that is also used for track racing at a lowly 850bhp tune and there are a loads of street 600bhp+ GT-Rs on here.

Also it would do well not to underestimate the GTS/GTT cars as they are very light (about 100 to 150kg less than the GT-R) so a 400bhp one is the equiv of a 550bhp GTO but the GTS/GTT can corner.

[tweenierob]

Ive had a hummer on my dyno and it fit... i only just got the GTO through the door

Rob

[bladerider]

Aw bless,

You bought your turbo a jacket to keep it warm when its not doing anything in your GTO as its about as quick as glacial drift !!!

[moosedoog]

right, i fel this has been overlooked here,

how the hell can you compare modified cars make for make, especially in the power department. most cars with a decent size engine are as powerful as the owner wants them to be.just depends how much money you want to throw at them.
i reckon a better comparison would be stock against stock to start with,then spend 1k on each car and compare again. then spend another 1k and compare etc etc. but even then i spose people would argue about which mods to do in what order to make each car better.

i did fair bit of research before i bought my gtr. i drove all sorts, rx7/scooby/evo/supra/gto amongst others and decided that the gtr offered more for the money in terms of easy bhp with reasonable reliability and a drivetrain and chassis that could handle it. the latter two is what the gto lacks.

i also believe that the gtr is easier to get more power from for less money than the other jap models, 550bhp is comparatively easy to achieve from a standard car with no need for internal modifications.

basically imo the gtr was the best overall package for the money i had to spend at the time............ so i bought one!!!!!!

[bkvj]

seems like you have a serious car there mate!