ANPR and SPECS camera's

[gavman]

Originally Posted by Grex

You're comments are very highly biased towards hating the police may I ask why?

personal experience mate, as previously described on here, if you've read my previous posts.
nothing naive comes from turning over attempted police fit-ups on a charge carrying a life sentance, or drug plants thrown out of court as a result of work done

like i said, i was part of a group that had the full resource of the state thrown at us in (failed) attempts to undermine and discredit us before the local community

[gavman]

Originally Posted by Grex

but at the end of the day you're clearly demonstrating a hatred of the system that would only come from someone who has been on the wrong end of it many times..

abso-bloody-lutely

and this is my point- all of these tools that are supposed to benefit us and keep us safe from 'terrorists' can so easily be subverted at the stroke of a pen, once the powers exist

i know for a fact that if current police internment powers had existed ten years ago i would've (along with others) spent a full 28 days in police custody on at least one occasion. if any member of our collective was arrested they are always held for the maximum permissable time before being charged, currently 28 days

you have this naive assumption that only 'bad' people get on the wrong end of the system, and it is from this that the weakness of your arguments stem. i have never hurt anyone, never sold drugs, nor have i committed any sexual offences. my 'crimes' were to be a rave organiser and to have grown my own smoke for close to twenty years, and to have been part of a commune that were a spiritual movement for social change, no cult, just a working class community trying to fend for ourselves and build homes for the homeless. members of the commune formed the 'marsh farm development trust', a ground up initiative running today, designed to improve life on a terrible ghetto estate that had the riots at the end of the 80's that led to the birth of exodus, our way out.
the trust has since been given a £50 million pound grant by central government to sort out the estate, and the battle has been to try and do it on a 'self help' basis, rather than letting all the funds go to management consultants and outside businesses. this has proved unpopular with the business community and local (tory) politicians, who heard the words '£50 million central government grant' and descended on the estate like a pack of vultures

back in the 90's, when we were holding free parties every three weeks (for ten years without fail), whitbreads, a local business, major employer etc realised that on the occasions of our dance their town centre fight clubs sorry pubs were seeing a major drop in their legal drugs revenue. this led to questions in parliament and much pressure on the local police to 'do something'.
however, the local rank and file were somewhat reluctant. here's why
there was a fraction of the trouble in luton, bedford, dunstable, milton keynes and the entire area on those evenings, meaning they could reduce policing and overtime levels 'cos we were taking care of all the local troublemakers. and there were further, knock on effects; like all towns, luton has some ethnic tensions. the main rival groups were the asians, gypsies and west indians, and we had members of all three communities, along with superb relations with the various, street-level community leaders. ours was the only place and forum for meetings and discussions between these, often warring tribes
also our events were well organised with everyone knowing what their job was; there was a convoy of about a thousand cars from the meeting place to the dance location, which required a huge effort on our part to police and manage, but we managed it (mainly by keeping the speed to about 10 mph). this earnt us grudging respect from those that saw it, but they hated our strength that gave us freedom from their daily harrassment; they could not come to the manor with less than 50 officers as otherwise they would lose their vehicles. as there were only ever between 50 and 60 officers on duty at peak times it required major planning, and therefore a major transgression before it was considered.
in reality they had to leave us alone, and many clearly resented this, especially at a tactical level

we didn't seek confrontation, and weren't unsympathetic to policing of the local community, of which we were a part. we were regarded as a halfway house, and local beat officers would often arrive at the manor gate with some yout- 'one of yours, we think' would be the term used as they handed over some local delinquent that they couldn't handle, but knew we would. we were doing more good at that level than they were, hardly surprising when you consider their tactics

so why do i hate the police?
1
i was at the sharp end for many years when they were representing local businesses or the duke of bedford, largest landowner in this part of the world (one of the largest in the country too), and have seen how things work, realpolitik-style. they were there to maintain the balance of power, the status quo, and we were pushing hard at the door. in such conflicts people's true colours will out, and i my experience the pooice believe themselves to be above the law, and that the law exists for their benefit
2
i was the first on the scene of a fatal rta where a young black lad (i won't name him here, but if you want to research it pm me) where two police officers sitting in an unmarked car carefully maneuvered around me in the middle of the road with him dying in my arms, lest their cover be blown. they did not offer first aid, nor did they ring an ambulance. their only concern was themselves
3
aggravated burglary on myself
so i've lived at the same house for many years, growing my own smoke. police have known this for many years as i don't believe i'm doing anything wrong, so don't really conceal my actions. i used to get nicked on a fairly regular basis just through being open, but the courts always take the view that i'm not involving anyone else, there are medical issues and i don't sell it- i'm just a hobby grower. so they leave me alone unless i rub their noses in it, which i avoid doing.
however, this year bedford police have come bottom of the national league table as the worst performing police force in the country, measured on clear-up rates. so they decided to go for the easy targets
which meant me being awoken in the middle of the night by the sound of my front door being broken in. thinking it's a dream, i get up in some confusion to see a load of strangers clambering over the wreckage and into my front room. my little girl cat, had been asleep in bed with me but had gone downstairs to investigate the noise was running back up the stairs in sheer terror, in front of these strangers that were now shouting at me and had me in handcuffs. wouldn't let me put any clothes on, so i'm stood in my own bedroom, stark bollok naked surrounded by pigs. i'm then led downstairs to my lounge, my tiny house full of pigs with the senior officer sitting on my favourite armchair like he owns the fcuking place

so what did they get?
12 dried plants grown in soil in my wardrobe, enough to last me maybe 6 months.
that's it, no guns, weapons, scales, bags, dealing paraphernalia or anything like that. they took my phone for 3 months to try and prove i was a dealer, the copper who lives across the road could've told them they're barking up the wrong tree with that one, and they quickly gave up on that line of attack as there was no evidence or even allegation to support it

there is a legal term for this, and it's aggravated burglary

how would you feel towards those who would do this to you, invade my home, lock me up and seek to imprison me, all for growing my own ganja?

i wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire

so, yes i hate them with a passion

doesn't stop me helping other people, tackling muggers or till snatchers

but does mean i fantasise about....well, i won't finish that statement, but you can use your imagination

[Durzel]

Originally Posted by gavman

so i've lived at the same house for many years, growing my own smoke. police have known this for many years as i don't believe i'm doing anything wrong, so don't really conceal my actions.

See there's where you went wrong. Just because you happen to think you're not doing anything wrong doesn't mean it's not against the Law. Last I checked growing cannabis at home (any amount) was illegal, and you're acting high and mighty when the Police search your house? How dare they!

Just reaffirms my belief that the people who generally have an irrational hatred of the Police are either criminals themselves, or have something to hide anyway.

[mifn21]

Originally Posted by Durzel

See there's where you went wrong. Just because you happen to think you're not doing anything wrong doesn't mean it's not against the Law. Last I checked growing cannabis at home (any amount) was illegal, and you're acting high and mighty when the Police search your house? How dare they!

Just reaffirms my belief that the people who generally have an irrational hatred of the Police are either criminals themselves, or have something to hide anyway.

I used to think you were pretty smart

[andy42uk]

Originally Posted by mifn21

I used to think you were pretty smart

I just checked his (Durzel's) profile, 29y/o and at a guess a closeted short life I think, judging by his ever more stupid comments.

[Grex]

Originally Posted by gavman

snip

lol, so basically after all that, the simple reason you hate the police is because your always in trouble them, which as it happens is something I figured out ages ago in this thread. Its always the same, people who get in trouble end up thinking they're not to blame and nothings their fault and the "state" only exists to get them.......

When really its just that your constantly breaking the law.... <which of course is totally wrong>

[cokey]

Oy Leave Swampy alone !! "Gavman"
He organised a few raves ! Not too bad a crime !

Durzel may infact be his wife ???

cheers cokey

[Durzel]

Originally Posted by Grex

lol, so basically after all that, the simple reason you hate the police is because your always in trouble them, which as it happens is something I figured out ages ago in this thread. Its always the same, people who get in trouble end up thinking they're not to blame and nothings their fault and the "state" only exists to get them.......

When really its just that your constantly breaking the law.... <which of course is totally wrong>

Sounds that way doesn't it. Fcuk the Police always keeping the poor law-breaking man on the street down!

[Grex]

Originally Posted by Durzel

Sounds that way doesn't it. Fcuk the Police always keeping the poor law-breaking man on the street down!

I love the way that anyone who thinks the police exist to keep the peace and prevent crime, has led a sheltered life and basically not existed, or not experienced real life at all. Because in reality the police are waiting on every street corner to lock someone up for nothing, because afterall - everyone in Jail is innocent right?

<goes back to sheltered life>

[Durzel]

Originally Posted by Grex

I love the way that anyone who thinks the police exist to keep the peace and prevent crime, has led a sheltered life and basically not existed, or not experienced real life at all. Because in reality the police are waiting on every street corner to lock someone up for nothing, because afterall - everyone in Jail is innocent right?

<goes back to sheltered life>

It's a fairly common defensive argument from the weak-minded when they're incapable of putting a rational point across, they have to blindly attack those with the opposite point of view in order to think they've succeeded.

Guess this thread has gone as far as it's going to so I'm locking it.

[Howsie]

Originally Posted by Durzel

It's a fairly common defensive argument from the weak-minded when they're incapable of putting a rational point across, they have to blindly attack those with the opposite point of view in order to think they've succeeded.

Guess this thread has gone as far as it's going to so I'm locking it.

Whilst I agree with almost all the points you have made chap and can't believe the idiocy and fear of some people on hear regarding authority I think it's a little unfair of you to have the last word and then lock this thread - so I've opened it up and will join the 'debate' last week.

Btw, burning speed camera's and the like is pathetic.

[andy42uk]

Originally Posted by Howsie

Whilst I agree with almost all the points you have made chap and can't believe the idiocy and fear of some people on hear regarding authority I think it's a little unfair of you to have the last word and then lock this thread - so I've opened it up and will join the 'debate' last week.

Btw, burning speed camera's and the like is pathetic.

Yes you see that enforced the argument that the problem with information and power is the people who try to manage it, they just can't help them selfs from mis-using it for their own agenda.......
It's human nature, and that is why this tracking of our every move that we are be subjected to is such a bad thing.
I rest my case.
Andy.

[Philip]

Originally Posted by andy42uk

Yes you see that enforced the argument that the problem with information and power is the people who try to manage it, they just can't help them selfs from mis-using it for their own agenda.......

It's not just the (inevitable) "mission-creep" - it's the irrefutable fact that the current government have already shown themselves to be incapable of keeping any data collected safe.

Of course, ID cards will be different.

Phil

[Grex]

Originally Posted by andy42uk

Yes you see that enforced the argument that the problem with information and power is the people who try to manage it, they just can't help them selfs from mis-using it for their own agenda.......
It's human nature, and that is why this tracking of our every move that we are be subjected to is such a bad thing.
I rest my case.
Andy.

Total and utter rubbish, I don't think I have ever read such hilarious ranting on any other forum.

You're actually saying that the information collected by the police in terms of tracking the whereabouts of people/vehicles at certain times, is their own little plan which they're using against the public to fuel their own agenda?

Thats ALMOST as funny as gavman's statement regarding all CCTV footage is used strictly by prosecution to put people away, and never to prove anyones innocence.

[Howsie]

Originally Posted by andy42uk

Yes you see that enforced the argument that the problem with information and power is the people who try to manage it, they just can't help them selfs from mis-using it for their own agenda.......
It's human nature, and that is why this tracking of our every move that we are be subjected to is such a bad thing.
I rest my case.
Andy.

You are in a position to do something about it, try and change it instead of fearing it.