GUNS

[prop135]

I have lived and worked around firearms all my adult life (22 years) and can honestly say I have never seen a firearm go off without some form of human interaction. (ie someone pressing the firing mechanism)

I have to agree with the earlier posts, it is the person not the gun that is dangerous.

[R33_GTS-t]

Having armed citizens keeps crime low. The only reason these shootings happened in the states is because universities are gun-free zones. It's terribly inconvenient to get shot when you're attempting to mass-murder people. The problem is that when an armed citizen prevents a crime, or saves someone or some people, it never makes the news.

Having an armed population also prevents a totalitarian socialist regime pissing all over you everyday.

[whiteSky]

Originally Posted by MeLLoN Stu

It's the people that are the problem. Switzerland has one of the highest gun : people ratio in 1st world countries, how often do you hear of shoot outs there?

As a Swiss i can agree...

Sure, we have higher attemted/ succesfull homicide rates (no separate numbers in our statistics) with guns than UK... but compared to the USA (which has about the same gun density as Switzerland) we have only 1/5 of their numbers.
But these cases with guns are not in first place.
There are still more People beaten or stabbed to death.

Further i should say that less than 20% of these were done with legally owned guns.

Most crimes with guns were done by foreigners and People with a negative Police record. These are not legal to posess or carry guns in our Country.

What does that mean?

Laws would NOT change anything...

-Criminals dont care about Laws... they buy/carry guns anyway.
-People that want to kill somebody or commit suicide will try that with a gun or without.


For me as a "clean" citizen it is easy to buy a gun... i only fill out a report, send it to the local police station (togheter with a valid record) and receive my "Buyer license" within 3-4 days.
If i dont want to buy one from a Dealer, i just have to make a Contract with the seller and store a copy of it for 10 years.

For a old Army Carbine i dont even need that... old army Rifles (pre 1950s non semi/full auto) can be purchased by every swiss over 18yrs... same for small caliber rifles (.22 and .22LR).
Teenagers from 14 on are offered to do Competitions with actual Army Assault Rifles, for competition they can legally carry them to the Range themselves.

In summer it can happen that you visit a Restaurant and step into a room with 10 or 30 civilians that have their Assault Rifles beside the Table and have a beer... they just on the way home from a Club Event or military practice on the Shooting Range.

You will find Guns in 35% of our households.
Statistically 17% of our Citizens legally own or store a (ex) Army Rifle/Gun.




It is not about Guns... it is about the People that abuse them.

[stealth]

Originally Posted by R33_GTS-t

Having armed citizens keeps crime low. The only reason these shootings happened in the states is because universities are gun-free zones. It's terribly inconvenient to get shot when you're attempting to mass-murder people. The problem is that when an armed citizen prevents a crime, or saves someone or some people, it never makes the news.

Having an armed population also prevents a totalitarian socialist regime pissing all over you everyday.

Using the problem to solve the problem ,cant see that working ,people will get legaly shot for spitting on the sidewalk or running down the roads .This is the folk of the USA we are talking about ,not the Swiss

[andreasgtr]

^^ @R33_GTS_t: we already had that kind of society in the USA, it was called Wild west and afaik it ended with a genocide and extermination of the native american people.

[psd1]

Originally Posted by stealth

Using the problem to solve the problem ,cant see that working ,people will get legaly shot for spitting on the sidewalk or running down the roads .This is the folk of the USA we are talking about ,not the Swiss

Wow Drama Queen, are you serious? Folks that go to the trouble of getting a concealed permit arent desperados that look for a fight. They are people that care about their personal protection and care for others generally. Alot are willing to take action to stop crimes.

Did you know that in the US a person witnessing a felony is required to TAKE action to stop it, and required to report it? In fact, the private citizen is authorized to use the same amount of force as a law enforcement agent while stopping a felony.

No matter what the public persona is (media induced) the US isnt a bunch of cowboys spoiling for a fight!

[psd1]

Originally Posted by andreasgtr

^^ @R33_GTS_t: we already had that kind of society in the USA, it was called Wild west and afaik it ended with a genocide and extermination of the native american people.

Completely wrong, please stop watching so many movies and believing everything Hollywood puts out.

In the Wild West people didnt need to get permission to carry weapons, they were a means of survival, a tool. Many people forget that unlike Europe, the US was very remote and unsettled until just a few hundred years ago. Guns were a tool used for defense as well as survival.

Extermination? Not sure about that Andreas, but it wasnt the rampant availability of guns that was the demise of the Indians. It was the expansion and growth of North America that that caused the wars. And that was Govt controlled, not private citizens. Unlike many history books that happen to leave out certain facts, many of the Indian tribes that were taken out were ruthless killers themselves. Of course the US Govt gives stipends to Native Americans and they have a ton more land rights than regular old Americans.

[mifn21]

Originally Posted by andreasgtr

^^ @R33_GTS_t: we already had that kind of society in the USA, it was called Wild west and afaik it ended with a genocide and extermination of the native american people.

The native americans didn't have guns though

[stealth]

Letting everyone walk around with guns is hardly being a drama queen Lol .Not really a solution is it .

[psd1]

Originally Posted by mifn21

The native americans didn't have guns though

Wrong, lots of tribes did aquire guns...and used them!

[mifn21]

Originally Posted by stealth

Letting everyone walk around with guns is hardly being a drama queen Lol .Not really a solution is it .

Simple fact is you're less likely to pull a gun on someone if you know they're likely to be packing - in a way its similar to the idea of using nuclear weapons as a deterrent - no country is going to use one because they will be annhilating themselves as well as their enemy

[psd1]

Originally Posted by stealth

Letting everyone walk around with guns is hardly being a drama queen Lol .Not really a solution is it .

If you were a crim and you knew that a person was UNARMED would you be more or less inclined to commit a crime?

If you were a crim and you knew that a person was ARMED would you be more or less inclined to commit a crime, or would you go onto the next target?

I think the answer is easy. People dont just sit back and allow stuff to happen, if someone has the means to stop a crime they often will!

Do you think these sicko school shooters would enter a lecture hall looking to kill innocent people if they knew there was an armed guard inside? Unfortunately it's all about making yourself a hard target. These campuses are soft targets...until they put a fence around them and control entry, they will always be easy pickings for the weak minded!

[andreasgtr]

psd1, other way around: What would happen if nobody was armed? Of course military and police excepted.

[GTRJack]

Ok let me say something to this as well..

Firbid the sale of all firearms to the civilians except for those who have license for hunting in the wild (a hunting license test that also include psyciatric evaluation legal access to person's background check). Firearms should only be for the police and the military.

SIMPLE AS THAT!

[mifn21]

That only stops law-abiding citizens from owning them, it won't stop a criminal having one