[Sidious]

Originally Posted by big_rob_sydney

I think people saying Ferrari are scared of competition are wide of the mark.

Putting F1 aside completely, look at the GT championships around the world. There have been numerous Ferrari only championships, where the tech has filtered onto other models, eg 355 challenge, 360 challenge stradale, and 430 scuderia. All cars derived from competition.

Sure, you'll get all kinds of reactions from individual owners, but to say something like that about the Factory seems out of kilter. No manufacturer has been more represented in motorsports than Ferrari at the highest level, period.

As regards what it would take for a GTR to "beat" an Enzo, this is such a wide topic. Beat it at what? Overall performance envelope, including top speed? What kind of gearing would that need? What kind of aerodynamics? At higher speeds, aerodynamics become vastly more important. A poorly performing car will need signifiantly more performance simply to push a bricklike shape through the air.

I'd guess that a simple quartermile time is easy enough. There are loads of modified cars that can beat an 11 second quarter. But these are frequently one-trick ponies. What about circuit handling? What about braking? Do these cars have composite brakes that can withstand numerous heavy applications, and are able to retain sufficient energy through heat build up?

Are we talking about a car capable of doing numerous laps around a track?

"Beat" how, exactly?

Taking this at face value (rather than simple internet chest beating), my guess would be that you'd need significant modifications, in the range fo 800+ bhp, to compensate for the aerodynamics.

Cornering would be assisted if the car was lighter, allowing greater speed \ momentum through the corner before the frictional grip level was exceeded.

Braking, as mentioned, needs looking at.

And putting all this together, will you have the benefit of a warranty? No. Has the car been built to the same standard as the Ferrari? No. Would you feel confident that you could have many years of happy motoring with it without needing to be on a first name basis with a tuner? Probably no.

I know of a few people with highly modified cars. They frequently spend many thousands of pounds on their cars to keep them running, and depending on the amount of running they actually do, their cars may spend more time in their tuners workshop than actually on the road.

The Enzo will do its thing day in day out, with warranty.

Save yourself the trouble. Buy a different GTR. Try an Ultima GTR. 9.x second quarter mile, stock, with warranty.

A good well balanced post, nice to see this in this forum for a change.

You mention aerodynamics, well unfortunately for some GTR dreamers on here , they dont really understand the level of engineering that goes into managing aerodynamic center of pressure, its relationship to center of gravity, the changes in drag and downforce/lift as the ride height of the car changes, also under braking or acceleration, the load paths, such things that make a huge difference on highspeed corners and bends where supercars really excel in if they were raced.

They also dont really understand how mid-engined cars work in low speed corner conditions. The words poise and precision is not something you relate to a front end heavy front engined car like the GTR, but often you will hear this praise for the NSX, and many well put together midengined cars.

When a supercar or racing car manufacturer designs a new car, they takes these things very seriously and often enough they tend to look the same barring the choice of engines and transmission, because the "basic" formula ultimately works. It is the small details between supercars, racing cars that determine that final few % of performance, the difference between winning and losing. The problem with the GTR and many other real-world cars is they are not built by the basic formula, they are compromised.

It makes me laugh at some people on here, who think the key to ultimate handling is by buying the most expensive coilovers and tyres they can afford, totally neglecting the hundreds of other aspects of a cars chassis and suspension, and thats before the effects of drag and lift come into play.