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kismetcapitan · 10th July 2008, 06:50 PM

lack of downforce is a consideration for the GT-R. I was just thinking about how I seriously doubt my car generates 1000 pounds of downforce at any speed.

A good sports car need not be mid-engined with the driver in front of the engine. Both the S2000 and the Viper use mid-front construction.

I've never driven the Nurburgring, but I hear it's hard. It requires a car to excel in all aspects. So, lacking a mid-engine layout, no handcraftmanship by Italians, overweight, and a Datsun badge made by little yellow people, how is it that all iterations of the GT-R excel on this road course, beating virtually every supercar out there. Must be the hand of God - God must be Japanese

If mid-engined and boutique branding is what makes a car the fastest, why is the Veyron sluggish around the 'Ring? Why does the magnificent, modern, and exotic F430 F1 only manage 4 seconds over a bone-stock wallowy R33 GT-R, fat, unwieldy, heavy and aerodynamic like a brick?

Handling, handling, and handling. The Radical SR8 is a go-kart built around two Hayabusa engines, and naturally, along with the Ariel Atom (another low-powered, extreme handling car), post sub-7 minute times. Clearly, a better handling car is faster. And somehow, the Skyline GT-R is right there. It doesn't take a genius to figure that if an R34 with stock road suspension and 280ps stock engine can run within 8 seconds of a Lanborghini Murcielago LP640, a Skyline GT-R with 600-800bhp and "a set of coilovers" will be significantly faster.

Bottom line: stock, or modified, the Skyline GT-R has always defied the conventional wisdom and has gained hard records for speed through its handling prowess. That's why people talk about it so goddam much. That's why people buy the things, even stock. A fat Jap saloon shouldn't be able to run twisties and straights like a Skyline does, but it does.

But you can never have the prestige of an Enzo with a Skyline. You won't be hitting 220mph either (unless you're running special gearing). You won't have great aerodynamic downforce (but somehow the Skyline gets by without it).

It's one thing for a team of engineers to start with a carbon fiber tub, and build a pure sports car without any compromises and a 620bhp engine, slap a prancing horse on it, then go run 7'47" on the Nordschliefe. It's quite another to hand a team of engineers a HUGE, enormous and overweight chassis, and then tell them to take that car, in full 2+2 trim, and run under 7'30". Who had the more difficult task?

btw, we can guesstimate the Enzo's track time. It apparently runs as fast around Fiorano as an F430 Scuderia. An F430 with 20 less hp and 100 more kg runs 7'55" on the ring. I say at MOST, an Enzo could run a 7'40"~7'45", no faster, with a Ringmeister at the helm.

Sabine Schmitz in my own personal GT-R could easily beat that.

10th July 2008, 06:50 PM	#105 (permalink)
kismetcapitan GTR Register Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Seoul Korea Posts: 6,401	lack of downforce is a consideration for the GT-R. I was just thinking about how I seriously doubt my car generates 1000 pounds of downforce at any speed. A good sports car need not be mid-engined with the driver in front of the engine. Both the S2000 and the Viper use mid-front construction. I've never driven the Nurburgring, but I hear it's hard. It requires a car to excel in all aspects. So, lacking a mid-engine layout, no handcraftmanship by Italians, overweight, and a Datsun badge made by little yellow people, how is it that all iterations of the GT-R excel on this road course, beating virtually every supercar out there. Must be the hand of God - God must be Japanese If mid-engined and boutique branding is what makes a car the fastest, why is the Veyron sluggish around the 'Ring? Why does the magnificent, modern, and exotic F430 F1 only manage 4 seconds over a bone-stock wallowy R33 GT-R, fat, unwieldy, heavy and aerodynamic like a brick? Handling, handling, and handling. The Radical SR8 is a go-kart built around two Hayabusa engines, and naturally, along with the Ariel Atom (another low-powered, extreme handling car), post sub-7 minute times. Clearly, a better handling car is faster. And somehow, the Skyline GT-R is right there. It doesn't take a genius to figure that if an R34 with stock road suspension and 280ps stock engine can run within 8 seconds of a Lanborghini Murcielago LP640, a Skyline GT-R with 600-800bhp and "a set of coilovers" will be significantly faster. Bottom line: stock, or modified, the Skyline GT-R has always defied the conventional wisdom and has gained hard records for speed through its handling prowess. That's why people talk about it so goddam much. That's why people buy the things, even stock. A fat Jap saloon shouldn't be able to run twisties and straights like a Skyline does, but it does. But you can never have the prestige of an Enzo with a Skyline. You won't be hitting 220mph either (unless you're running special gearing). You won't have great aerodynamic downforce (but somehow the Skyline gets by without it). It's one thing for a team of engineers to start with a carbon fiber tub, and build a pure sports car without any compromises and a 620bhp engine, slap a prancing horse on it, then go run 7'47" on the Nordschliefe. It's quite another to hand a team of engineers a HUGE, enormous and overweight chassis, and then tell them to take that car, in full 2+2 trim, and run under 7'30". Who had the more difficult task? btw, we can guesstimate the Enzo's track time. It apparently runs as fast around Fiorano as an F430 Scuderia. An F430 with 20 less hp and 100 more kg runs 7'55" on the ring. I say at MOST, an Enzo could run a 7'40"~7'45", no faster, with a Ringmeister at the helm. Sabine Schmitz in my own personal GT-R could easily beat that.