RB30 engine conversion (lots of pics) - Page 10 - GT-R Register - Official Nissan Skyline and GTR Owners Club forum

toddrb30gtr · 22nd July 2006, 10:08 PM

good to see your getting it sorted mate....your first is always the big learning curve..... nice work

R32 Combat · 25th July 2006, 08:41 AM

After driving to JAE, I appear to have a slight head gasket issue. I've never used a copper head gasket before and you need to re-torque the head bolts after running the engine and letting it cool down again(without any water pressure).

I didn't know this and I'm hoping this is the cause of the trouble.

Sooo, the head's coming off tonight(it's an easy job now) and going for inline boring and skimming if needed.

Thats another 2 weeks off the road...

Apart from that, all is well. I will alter the oil cooler setup slightly while in faffing about to tidy the engine bay up a little.

When it goes back together(and if all's ok) then I'll fill it up with proper oil and start running some proper boost...

I think starting with .8,.9,1 and so on.

toddrb30gtr · 25th July 2006, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R32 Combat

After driving to JAE, I appear to have a slight head gasket issue. I've never used a copper head gasket before and you need to re-torque the head bolts after running the engine and letting it cool down again(without any water pressure).

I didn't know this and I'm hoping this is the cause of the trouble.

Sooo, the head's coming off tonight(it's an easy job now) and going for inline boring and skimming if needed.

Thats another 2 weeks off the road...

Apart from that, all is well. I will alter the oil cooler setup slightly while in faffing about to tidy the engine bay up a little.

When it goes back together(and if all's ok) then I'll fill it up with proper oil and start running some proper boost...

I think starting with .8,.9,1 and so on.

when you put it back together, use a gasket spray on contact glue ( loctite or such) that will help the copper gasket seal around the water ways....

R32 Combat · 25th July 2006, 01:41 PM

Hylomar don't recommend using this. I spoke to them yesterday. They suggested the silicon compound I used was best(loctite 5699 I think)

Who sells aerosol copper gasket sealant? Hylomar don't sell it in the UK,(USA only)Loctite don't seem to sell it at all.

Cheers

Chris Wilson · 25th July 2006, 02:48 PM

May I ask why you are choosing to use a copper head gasket? In my experience they are total hassle, can you not use a normal multi layer shim gasket or a stock composite gasket?

R32 Combat · 25th July 2006, 03:05 PM

Hi Chris

I was advised that a copper gasket is more reliable and cheaper.

The block has been 'o' ringed which, I think, means I can't use a STD gasket.

American V8's use copper gaskets alot with no trouble.

It's can't be too tricky, I just need a little advise from someone in the know, but they are all too tight lipped.

Scott · 25th July 2006, 05:10 PM

So did you get home from JAE okay then??
Or did you need a tow???

R32 Combat · 25th July 2006, 05:18 PM

After our little mod, she drive perfectly. Didn't use a drop of water.

We set the AEM to retart the timing 20degs if the water went over 95degs as a safety measure to cut the engine out.

The heads half off. Hopefully we'll have an idea as to whats wrong soon.

Thanks for the loan of the water sprinkler

R32 Combat · 25th July 2006, 08:47 PM

The heads off and stripped down. I couldn't see any obvious leakage signs.

All I can say is the sealant I used stuck real well. I think it wasn't quite clean enough in one corner. Thats my best guess.

It's off to get bored now.

cokey · 25th July 2006, 10:05 PM

The only copper gasket Ive ever bought was for a kawasaki hybrid engine I built. It was extra thin to raise the compression ratio.
It failed to seal and tore when I lifted the barrels !
Are you going to re/aneal it and reuse it ?
Or go cometic ?
regards cokey

SteveN · 25th July 2006, 10:33 PM

In my experience of Copper Gaskets and Coopers Rings (ie O-ringed the bores, like I think youve done) they are a ****ing nightmare and not needed anyhow.

When I say nightmare, that was on their own, BOTH together ive never tried or seen, but bugger that!

Once youve had the block machined for coopers rings you got no choise but use them too, no going back.

IMO modern MLS gaskets are more than good enough.

Anything more is just masking a different problem IMO.

Asim R32GTR · 26th July 2006, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R32 Combat

Hi Chris

I was advised that a copper gasket is more reliable and cheaper.

The block has been 'o' ringed which, I think, means I can't use a STD gasket.

American V8's use copper gaskets alot with no trouble.

It's can't be too tricky, I just need a little advise from someone in the know, but they are all too tight lipped.

You can use the standard head gasket when the block is o-ringed.
But the tightening procedure is different.
The same as with a copper gasket.
First tighten to spec, then warm up engine, then loosen up, and then tighten back to spec again....

I have used copper gaskets on a couple of E30 325BMW`s that i turbo converted. Worked like a charm

R32 Combat · 26th July 2006, 06:09 AM

I am thinking about using a cometic gasket. I really don't know which was to go. It seems the general consensus is don't use copper. If done properly, they are good but they are not that commonly used in the UK.

SteveN, the 'O' rings are steel, make from welding wire.

Asim, I was worried I couldn't use a STD gasket with an 'O' ringed block, but you say I can. Is this recommended??

Asim R32GTR · 26th July 2006, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R32 Combat

Asim, I was worried I couldn't use a STD gasket with an 'O' ringed block, but you say I can. Is this recommended??

It is very common with cosworths and volvo`s here in Norway to use standard head gasket when the block has steel o-rings. And it does the job!

What thickness rings do you have? and how deep is the groove for the rings?

toddrb30gtr · 26th July 2006, 08:10 AM

ive used crush ringed blocks before with copper head gaskets,,, and had no problems. when you get the copper gasket, lightly scuff up with abrasive pad,, clean block and head with thinners,,, use a good quality gasket spray!!! i used ACL BRAND back in oz, dont know what they have over here ( i will do some research for ya) lightly spray the block, head and gasket.......

hang gasket on a peice of wire when doing so.... MAKE SURE NOT TO LET ANYTHING STICK TO IT!!!! dust ect.

let them sit for 15 min to go sticky, lightly spray gasket again then fit...........

put head on dead straight onto dowles ( dont slide around to locate )

then your on ya way.......get that boostapumpin

25th July 2006, 05:10 PM	#142 (permalink)
Scott GTROC Board Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: at 'ome Posts: 5,649	So did you get home from JAE okay then?? Or did you need a tow??? __________________ Regards, Scott. GTROC Members Secretary. Please feel free to PM me with any GTROC Membership or Merchandising issues. OO SKYLINE OO My R32's full restoration: http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/upload/77...ht=restoration

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22nd July 2006, 10:08 PM	#136 (permalink)
toddrb30gtr GTR Register Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: GOLDCOAST AUSTRALIA Posts: 230	good to see your getting it sorted mate....your first is always the big learning curve..... nice work

25th July 2006, 08:41 AM	#137 (permalink)
R32 Combat New Users Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Berkshire Posts: 4,329	After driving to JAE, I appear to have a slight head gasket issue. I've never used a copper head gasket before and you need to re-torque the head bolts after running the engine and letting it cool down again(without any water pressure). I didn't know this and I'm hoping this is the cause of the trouble. Sooo, the head's coming off tonight(it's an easy job now) and going for inline boring and skimming if needed. Thats another 2 weeks off the road... Apart from that, all is well. I will alter the oil cooler setup slightly while in faffing about to tidy the engine bay up a little. When it goes back together(and if all's ok) then I'll fill it up with proper oil and start running some proper boost... I think starting with .8,.9,1 and so on.

25th July 2006, 01:41 PM	#139 (permalink)
R32 Combat New Users Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Berkshire Posts: 4,329	Hylomar don't recommend using this. I spoke to them yesterday. They suggested the silicon compound I used was best(loctite 5699 I think) Who sells aerosol copper gasket sealant? Hylomar don't sell it in the UK,(USA only)Loctite don't seem to sell it at all. Cheers

25th July 2006, 02:48 PM	#140 (permalink)
Chris Wilson GTR Register Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Shropshire Posts: 1,384	May I ask why you are choosing to use a copper head gasket? In my experience they are total hassle, can you not use a normal multi layer shim gasket or a stock composite gasket?

25th July 2006, 03:05 PM	#141 (permalink)
R32 Combat New Users Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Berkshire Posts: 4,329	Hi Chris I was advised that a copper gasket is more reliable and cheaper. The block has been 'o' ringed which, I think, means I can't use a STD gasket. American V8's use copper gaskets alot with no trouble. It's can't be too tricky, I just need a little advise from someone in the know, but they are all too tight lipped.

25th July 2006, 05:18 PM	#143 (permalink)
R32 Combat New Users Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Berkshire Posts: 4,329	After our little mod, she drive perfectly. Didn't use a drop of water. We set the AEM to retart the timing 20degs if the water went over 95degs as a safety measure to cut the engine out. The heads half off. Hopefully we'll have an idea as to whats wrong soon. Thanks for the loan of the water sprinkler

25th July 2006, 08:47 PM	#144 (permalink)
R32 Combat New Users Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Berkshire Posts: 4,329	The heads off and stripped down. I couldn't see any obvious leakage signs. All I can say is the sealant I used stuck real well. I think it wasn't quite clean enough in one corner. Thats my best guess. It's off to get bored now.

25th July 2006, 10:05 PM	#145 (permalink)
cokey GTR Register Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: edinburgh Posts: 1,107	The only copper gasket Ive ever bought was for a kawasaki hybrid engine I built. It was extra thin to raise the compression ratio. It failed to seal and tore when I lifted the barrels ! Are you going to re/aneal it and reuse it ? Or go cometic ? regards cokey

25th July 2006, 10:33 PM	#146 (permalink)
SteveN GTR Register Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Just off the M5/A40 Posts: 7,108	In my experience of Copper Gaskets and Coopers Rings (ie O-ringed the bores, like I think youve done) they are a ****ing nightmare and not needed anyhow. When I say nightmare, that was on their own, BOTH together ive never tried or seen, but bugger that! Once youve had the block machined for coopers rings you got no choise but use them too, no going back. IMO modern MLS gaskets are more than good enough. Anything more is just masking a different problem IMO.

26th July 2006, 06:09 AM	#148 (permalink)
R32 Combat New Users Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Berkshire Posts: 4,329	I am thinking about using a cometic gasket. I really don't know which was to go. It seems the general consensus is don't use copper. If done properly, they are good but they are not that commonly used in the UK. SteveN, the 'O' rings are steel, make from welding wire. Asim, I was worried I couldn't use a STD gasket with an 'O' ringed block, but you say I can. Is this recommended??

26th July 2006, 08:10 AM	#150 (permalink)
toddrb30gtr GTR Register Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: GOLDCOAST AUSTRALIA Posts: 230	ive used crush ringed blocks before with copper head gaskets,,, and had no problems. when you get the copper gasket, lightly scuff up with abrasive pad,, clean block and head with thinners,,, use a good quality gasket spray!!! i used ACL BRAND back in oz, dont know what they have over here ( i will do some research for ya) lightly spray the block, head and gasket....... hang gasket on a peice of wire when doing so.... MAKE SURE NOT TO LET ANYTHING STICK TO IT!!!! dust ect. let them sit for 15 min to go sticky, lightly spray gasket again then fit........... put head on dead straight onto dowles ( dont slide around to locate ) then your on ya way.......get that boostapumpin