Moby Dick coming together - Page 2 - GT-R Register - Official Nissan Skyline and GTR Owners Club forum

paul cawson · 15th June 2008, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kismetcapitan

is that chamber an oil or water chamber (that gets accessed from the plug)?

Oil, its the end of a gallery that runs right througt the block

Simonh · 15th June 2008, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kismetcapitan

correction - this builder has OCD, the one who built my engine before just slapped the thing together.

I am being a bit obsession, but I also do push my engine hard. A new crank wasn't mandatory, but I was concerned about crank thrust.

OCD? I'm now in a total mess mentally because I can't decide to use 120 gram piston wrist pins, or hold up the build and wait for 100 gram pins.

it won't make a noticable difference at your level of tune, go with the ones you have.

Simon

freakazoid3 · 15th June 2008, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul cawson

Its the plugs in the block I mean, where the oil and water pumps meet there is a plug to the otherwise unclean able chamber. Lots of shell bits hide in here only to come out later and chew up your new build

Always learning something every day

I've never had my block apart so just picking things up for when the day comes that I have too...Rather later then sooner though

kismetcapitan · 16th June 2008, 12:08 AM

I found the result of the pin runout - 3 out of 6 pistons (assembled on the conrods) are a little sticky in their movement, the other 3 move freely yet without play.

This will be my 4th engine in two years (original blew, replaced by importer at no cost, that one blew, rebuilt it, and now rebuilding it again). With the detail going into this one though, and everything I've learned from this board over the past two years, I feel that the chances of this engine lasting a good long while are high - it wasn't the high powered tune I was running (the pistons and head are immaculate), it was the absolute shite bearing fitment that eventually led to bigger and bigger problems.

The new crank should help alleviate any crank thrust play (along with correctly fitted bearings) as well as adjusting the clutch pressure. The shop has promised free thrust checks every six months - that's pulling the oil pan and visually inspecting the center main bearing. Sounds good to me!

On the parts front, I decided to add an HKS Racing blow off valve - the basic SSQV has problems holding 2 bars of boost - it leaks at that pressure. The Racing version is good for 3 bars so they say.

kismetcapitan · 19th June 2008, 12:17 AM

bearings have arrived and the crankshaft fitted:

the dummy head is on:

some plastigage and yep, bearings fit up just the way we want them to:

remeasuring everything:

checking the journals:

the cylinder hone:

didn't someone mention that the type of hone in a sense dictates the best way to break in the engine? The hone angle here looks shallow, I had thought it'd be 45 degrees but I don't know squat about how to hone a cylinder.

no more work on the car as my engine builder is prepping a pair of Lexus IS200s that run in the KGTC, they usually dominate but I found this video where a turbocharged Hyundai manages a pass on the front straight of Yongin Speedway - the main racetrack in Korea.
korean KGTC indigo tuscani overtake kixx lexus - Video

after this weekend's race though, my car should be finished within a week, yay!

plumwerks · 19th June 2008, 12:31 AM

Very nice K.C. now run the darn thing in properly,that hone looks excellent and the angle seems fine to me.
What are you doing for cams,are you staying the same or going up.

kismetcapitan · 19th June 2008, 02:03 AM

nope, same Tomei Poncam 260/260 9.15mm lift. I'm mulling over getting adjustable pulleys so that the cams can be degreed in, but I'm suspicious of adjustable cam pulleys - I keep imagining them working loose and then the cams causing the valves to smash into the pistons...

by proper run in, are you talking the "gradual" method versus the "hard" method? I'm planning to do this one gradually, run mineral oil for at least 1000 miles, as the HKS Titan piston rings are new and harder than OEM rings.

kismetcapitan · 19th June 2008, 02:19 AM

ah, and a compromise was reached on the wrist pins. Pins are pins, and although one could get picky with the alloy that they're made of, we ended up just doing the obvious: the pistons and rods have been balanced and matched, so there are six sets. So just have bespoke pins milled for each set (we measured the piston holes and the conrod little ends), then the pins, although matched for a particular piston/rod set, will be weight-matched as a whole. Simple enough really.

It's really cool to be working with this guy, and to see how meticulous each step is taken. It's a whole new level of education with engine building.

plumwerks · 19th June 2008, 03:16 AM

I was referring to the gradual method,at least for the first 500 or 600 miles,then gradually start to do the quick bursts and back off to get the oil to wash down the bores.
Oh and get the pulleys already,they wont slip,good ones actually have teeth to align them,if your builder is as thorough as you say,them I'm sure he will ask for them.

paul cawson · 19th June 2008, 11:56 AM

How many oil holes do those Cosworth main bearings have in them

Stachi · 19th June 2008, 05:20 PM

Nice build! I'm always impressed by precision workmanship!

But regarding the dummy head.. Looks like 2 laser cut sheet metal plates?
I always thought that you take the same Material that the head is made off and also keep the same height as the deck height? Please someone enlighten me

Marc

Lith · 19th June 2008, 09:05 PM

Very nice build

Are you going to stick with the same turbos on near 2bar as well?

kismetcapitan · 20th June 2008, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stachi

Nice build! I'm always impressed by precision workmanship!

But regarding the dummy head.. Looks like 2 laser cut sheet metal plates?
I always thought that you take the same Material that the head is made off and also keep the same height as the deck height? Please someone enlighten me

Marc

I thought so too - that the dummy head would be a big, well, head-sized chunk of aluminum. I trust this builder though - the Altezza's (two of them on the team) that he has been building the engines for have dominated the KGTC for three years. Every once in a while a team with a Tiburon running big boost threatens them, but it's very hard to keep a high-boosted Hyundai in a race from start to finish.

If this all works out, I may very well ask my builder to build me an RB20-powered R32 GTS-4 for me to run as a privateer in the KGTC (largest permissible displacement is 2000cc). I'm certain circuit racing is far more exciting than playing on the streets, and maybe the ATTESA could give the car an edge as it did in Group A.

kismetcapitan · 20th June 2008, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lith

Very nice build

Are you going to stick with the same turbos on near 2bar as well?

yes, no turbo changes. I was considering GT-RS turbos and running them at 1.6 bar to put less stress on the turbos, but with water injection I'll just run my 2860-5s until failure, then rebuild them. At 2.7 liters, I don't have enough displacement to run the bigger GT-RS without maddening shuffle and surge.

paul cawson · 20th June 2008, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stachi

Nice build! I'm always impressed by precision workmanship!

But regarding the dummy head.. Looks like 2 laser cut sheet metal plates?
I always thought that you take the same Material that the head is made off and also keep the same height as the deck height? Please someone enlighten me

Marc

Having the crank cradle fitted and tightened to the correct torque is possibly more important

19th June 2008, 12:17 AM	#20 (permalink)
kismetcapitan GTR Register Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Seoul Korea Posts: 6,051	bearings have arrived and the crankshaft fitted: the dummy head is on: some plastigage and yep, bearings fit up just the way we want them to: remeasuring everything: checking the journals: the cylinder hone: didn't someone mention that the type of hone in a sense dictates the best way to break in the engine? The hone angle here looks shallow, I had thought it'd be 45 degrees but I don't know squat about how to hone a cylinder. no more work on the car as my engine builder is prepping a pair of Lexus IS200s that run in the KGTC, they usually dominate but I found this video where a turbocharged Hyundai manages a pass on the front straight of Yongin Speedway - the main racetrack in Korea. korean KGTC indigo tuscani overtake kixx lexus - Video after this weekend's race though, my car should be finished within a week, yay! Last edited by kismetcapitan; 19th June 2008 at 12:22 AM.

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16th June 2008, 12:08 AM	#19 (permalink)
kismetcapitan GTR Register Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Seoul Korea Posts: 6,051	I found the result of the pin runout - 3 out of 6 pistons (assembled on the conrods) are a little sticky in their movement, the other 3 move freely yet without play. This will be my 4th engine in two years (original blew, replaced by importer at no cost, that one blew, rebuilt it, and now rebuilding it again). With the detail going into this one though, and everything I've learned from this board over the past two years, I feel that the chances of this engine lasting a good long while are high - it wasn't the high powered tune I was running (the pistons and head are immaculate), it was the absolute shite bearing fitment that eventually led to bigger and bigger problems. The new crank should help alleviate any crank thrust play (along with correctly fitted bearings) as well as adjusting the clutch pressure. The shop has promised free thrust checks every six months - that's pulling the oil pan and visually inspecting the center main bearing. Sounds good to me! On the parts front, I decided to add an HKS Racing blow off valve - the basic SSQV has problems holding 2 bars of boost - it leaks at that pressure. The Racing version is good for 3 bars so they say.

19th June 2008, 12:31 AM	#21 (permalink)
plumwerks GTR Register Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 297	Very nice K.C. now run the darn thing in properly,that hone looks excellent and the angle seems fine to me. What are you doing for cams,are you staying the same or going up.

19th June 2008, 02:03 AM	#22 (permalink)
kismetcapitan GTR Register Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Seoul Korea Posts: 6,051	nope, same Tomei Poncam 260/260 9.15mm lift. I'm mulling over getting adjustable pulleys so that the cams can be degreed in, but I'm suspicious of adjustable cam pulleys - I keep imagining them working loose and then the cams causing the valves to smash into the pistons... by proper run in, are you talking the "gradual" method versus the "hard" method? I'm planning to do this one gradually, run mineral oil for at least 1000 miles, as the HKS Titan piston rings are new and harder than OEM rings.

19th June 2008, 02:19 AM	#23 (permalink)
kismetcapitan GTR Register Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Seoul Korea Posts: 6,051	ah, and a compromise was reached on the wrist pins. Pins are pins, and although one could get picky with the alloy that they're made of, we ended up just doing the obvious: the pistons and rods have been balanced and matched, so there are six sets. So just have bespoke pins milled for each set (we measured the piston holes and the conrod little ends), then the pins, although matched for a particular piston/rod set, will be weight-matched as a whole. Simple enough really. It's really cool to be working with this guy, and to see how meticulous each step is taken. It's a whole new level of education with engine building.

19th June 2008, 03:16 AM	#24 (permalink)
plumwerks GTR Register Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 297	I was referring to the gradual method,at least for the first 500 or 600 miles,then gradually start to do the quick bursts and back off to get the oil to wash down the bores. Oh and get the pulleys already,they wont slip,good ones actually have teeth to align them,if your builder is as thorough as you say,them I'm sure he will ask for them.

19th June 2008, 11:56 AM	#25 (permalink)
paul cawson New Users Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Essex Posts: 2,041	How many oil holes do those Cosworth main bearings have in them

19th June 2008, 05:20 PM	#26 (permalink)
Stachi GTROC Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Near Stuttgart, Germany Posts: 620	Nice build! I'm always impressed by precision workmanship! But regarding the dummy head.. Looks like 2 laser cut sheet metal plates? I always thought that you take the same Material that the head is made off and also keep the same height as the deck height? Please someone enlighten me Marc

19th June 2008, 09:05 PM	#27 (permalink)
Lith GTR Register Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Palmy, NZ Posts: 729	Very nice build Are you going to stick with the same turbos on near 2bar as well?