GT-ss or GT2530?

[kismetcapitan]

Originally Posted by kingsley

I might want to drive like that sometimes but I don't want to have to drive like that all of the time.

well, that is true. You do have to get aggressive, even violent with the car and then it will surprise many, many exotics. Drive it lazily, then suddenly ask it to perform, and it needs time to wake up. But if its kept on the boil, there's no "lag".

And just how would we define "police-friendly"?? I am dead certain my definition differs from yours greatly

[Dins]

Police-friendly means waving hello when you go past at a million miles an hour .

[SamuraiSam]

Originally Posted by Dins

Police-friendly means waving hello when you go past at a million miles an hour .

(I didn't know there was such a thing as a police-friendly launch)

mifn21, I knew the injectors were the same but had no idea about the pumps, and the price on that fuel pump will probably make it worthwhile to use.

Yes, they should whistle as they come on-boost.

Yes, your threshold should lower and you should make more power everywhere with some more ignition timing. Did you balance the wastegates properly and set enough preload on the wastegate actuators? Those are things that if done wrong can result in a higher threshold than normal.

[ashfrancis]

Originally Posted by SamuraiSam

And that's the second reply from someone who has driven both turbo setups (GT-SS vs GT2530) on a GT-R. Count is 0-and-2, favoring the 2530's.

Carlo, sounds like a sick setup. I think your cam selection is spot on, and I'll be going with the exact same cams.

just out of interest both my car with gt ss's and my mates 2530's run very similar specs apart from turbo chioce, same cams both hks 256 264 step 1 cams, both on 700cc injectors with an in take hks fuel pump, both running differnet full exhaust systems from turbo back, both on apexi intakes, both on same ecu set up of hks fcon pro, hks evc BC's, both with 1.2 mm hks head gaskets.

only main difference is he runs forged standard sized pistons and i was running a stock bottom end and he has 2530's and i had gt-ss's and different mappers probalby why his is still going after 9 years hard use and mine died after 3 years! and i dont rev mine like he did.

i my experience out of the 2 if i was going for the same thing agian i would choose his setup without a doubt, 2 cars together from standing still to 165 ish on a private road he was ahead all the way and at 100+ again on private road we was along way ahead.

alot of lag can be dialed out with good cam shaft choice and a very good map, i have seen 2530's doing nothing until 5500 rpm from bad mapping and no fun at all to drive.

Just for the record i am not biast in any way i loved my old set up but liked his more. I since then am going down the rb30 t04z route, and without starting another 'too much lag on a single debate' i have been out in sparkes rb30 T04z setup and lag is like standard turbos but so much more pull

At the end of the day you cant go wrong with gt-ss or 2530 both are great setups just giving you a case from someone who has tried both

[mifn21]

Originally Posted by SamuraiSam

mifn21, I knew the injectors were the same but had no idea about the pumps, and the price on that fuel pump will probably make it worthwhile to use.

Yes, they should whistle as they come on-boost.

Yes, your threshold should lower and you should make more power everywhere with some more ignition timing. Did you balance the wastegates properly and set enough preload on the wastegate actuators? Those are things that if done wrong can result in a higher threshold than normal.

The pumps are made by JECS, same as the injectors Because the 044 is very popular with Ford Cosworth tuning, they are quite cheap and easy to get hold of (I bet an 044 in Japan would be more than a Nismo!)

I got the car from Japan with the work already done to it - according to Tweenierob its down to the mapping (they've backed the timing down a lot and moved the CAS to fully advanced, presumably to stop tinkering and killing the engine!) Midrange is also rich, which doesnt help!
How would I balance the wastegates and set equal preload on the actuators? Is there a set amount of preload they should have?

I'll phone PT up tomorrow and see if they can email me a copy of the dyno run showing the AFRs if possible and post it up, and I'll borrow my mates camera to film the EVC display as the car boosts

A bit off topic but would getting adjustable cam gears make a noticable difference? The Poncams I'm guessing will be set to standard timing I'd have thought, since it has the original gears fitted
I want to get any necessary parts fitted in one go before getting it mapped for obvious reasons (ie money )

[SamuraiSam]

Ah. We dont' have the ford Cosworth following over here, nor (to my knowledge) a supply (in America) of readily available cheap 044's.

The CAS being set wrong is a very big problem. Very big. Not enough timing means WAY down on power EVERYWHERE, and also HIGH exhaust gas temps which is not good for longevity on any component. Rich mixtures also cause HIGH exhaust gas temps. The combo of these things is NOT GOOD. I would NOT drive the car the way it is without setting base timing correctly and remapping it.

Yes, adjustable cam gears will make a difference in your powerband with Poncams. You can dial out overlap, play with advancing the cams a bit, to bring power in earlier.

You need to tee the wastegate actuators together and then attach a pump to it with a gauge, bring up pressure. I would start out by setting them to open at around 80kpa (.8 bar) by adjusting the rod length. To balance them just make sure the rods move at exactly the same time, and adjust the rod length if they don't until everything is moving in unison.

[kingsley]

Originally Posted by SamuraiSam

And that's the second reply from someone who has driven both turbo setups (GT-SS vs GT2530) on a GT-R. Count is 0-and-2, favoring the 2530's.

I've driven GT-SS and I've driven 2530s, both on a 2.6. On the 2.6, I preferred the GT-SS, so does that now make it 2-1 then?

I'd imagine on a 2.8 I'd prefer the 2530s over the GT-SS but I've not driven a 2.8 with those turbos so I couldn't say.

I don't think the GT-SS owners on here would have any trouble accepting that there are people who prefer the 2530s (and bigger). Perhaps it's time for you to accept that there are also those who don't.

[GT-R Glenn]

I guess you could liken it to , (ss's) being as responsive as factory hairdryers?
But more reliable , and capable of making more power.
Vs 2530's are without a doubt more laggy, but they are definately NOT a laggy turbo.
I can pass anything at 120k just by standing on the loud pedal, no change down ...Unless Im in a hurry , in which case I might.
So as far as responsiveness goes, I would imagine comparing apples with apples, the ss's pull quicker, but not as hard or for as long.
My RS581's were dam quick (Nismo) and only ever ran them up to 1.2 1.3 bar
Car was awesome to drive ,used in lots of hillclimbs/circuit/ FLYING & standing 1/4's ....
Its definately slightly slower to respond now , BUT comes in harder and for longer, If you have the engine on the cams and in the right gear, its quicker but a country mile, no comparison.

Im sure theres a really good reason 2530's were the most common hairdryer used on GTR circuit cars in Japan ....
Anyway ....
SS's good
2530's more good





So + 1 2530's
:P

[JP_Tuner]

I would have to say it all depends on what your goal is. If you're looking for upwards of a 600+ car weather for the street or circuit, I would go with 2530's. If you're only looking at 400-500, I would just stay with the GT-SS's. Or you could do like me and go with N1's.

[SamuraiSam]

Oh, I accept that there are a lot of well-educated camps who understand completely the technicalities and differences between the two setups, and who maybe even have driven both cars, and that some of these people prefer the SS, and some of them prefer the 2530. I just also believe that there is a larger third camp who are not as well educated and do not fully understand engine airflow and are mixed-up with all these fake terms out like "turbo lag" and are concerned about on-boost performance at 3000rpm driving around a city who would be in the 2530 camp if they were just educated a bit more or spent a bit more time learning to drive a car well...

[SkylineUSA]

Originally Posted by SamuraiSam

Oh, I accept that there are a lot of well-educated camps who understand completely the technicalities and differences between the two setups, and who maybe even have driven both cars, and that some of these people prefer the SS, and some of them prefer the 2530. I just also believe that there is a larger third camp who are not as well educated and do not fully understand engine airflow and are mixed-up with all these fake terms out like "turbo lag" and are concerned about on-boost performance at 3000rpm driving around a city who would be in the 2530 camp if they were just educated a bit more or spent a bit more time learning to drive a car well...

Right, no such thing as turbo lag, complete myth

So 2530 and GT-SS spool exactly the same? Come on, give me a break.

[SamuraiSam]

Originally Posted by SkylineUSA

Right, no such thing as turbo lag, complete myth

So 2530 and GT-SS spool exactly the same? Come on, give me a break.

Sigh.

Never said that 2530 and GT-SS have the exact same boost threshold.

I don't use the term turbo lag. In the last post on the first page (GT-ss or GT2530?) I linked to this informative thread

Turbo lag - turbo response - real or imagined - FreshAlloy.com Forums

Read it, learn it. Good info. Two of the most knowledgeable (if not the two most knowledgeable) GT-R heads who bother posting on internet forums discussing wonderful technical things about engines.

If you still like GT-SS, more power to you. I am not trying to change people's opinions, just educate them.

Originally Posted by tyndago

So basically what you are saying - is that you want a big displacement, normally aspirated engine.

Either that - or you need to drive the car better. You need to select a gear to get the car into its rev range where it operates most effectively.

See , the more I look at it, the more I think its a driver problem , not an engine, or turbo problem.

Originally Posted by tyndago

So what people call lag , is not lag. We see the term used so much, but its incorrectly used. Its incorrectly used by too many people.

Many of these setups are no "laggier" or even less responsive from 3000 rpms than a stock turbo setup , however everyone that puts a set of 2530's, or N1's or a GT42R on a car says its "laggier" . If we actually overlay the charts , the response is similar, but the power and torque when it does come to life is so much greater, that it makes the stock horspower level feel "slow".

[TREG]

Originally Posted by SamuraiSam

Sigh.


If you still like GT-SS, more power to you. I am not trying to change people's opinions, just educate them.

Skyline Usa does all his on engine work to his cars(including polish and porting!), so I dont think you will educate him much.

[SamuraiSam]

Originally Posted by TREG

Skyline Usa does all his on engine work to his cars(including polish and porting!), so I dont think you will educate him much.

I know. I realized he knew what he was talking about a few days ago, and went back and read through a bunch of his post history .

[icsbnr32gtr]

Originally Posted by SkylineUSA

That is what I am getting at when I say normal driving, GT-SS are way better

They make a GTR more of a total car, more than just a race car. Sure they will lose to a 2530 set-up car above 6000rpms, but when driving how often are you in that threashhold? And they are not going to lose bad, speed limit is only 70mph

Well I've read the entire 5 page thread. I can honestly say its a matter of opinion. But I think that a lot of people forget what the "R" in GTR stands for. Gran Turismo Racer. The car was designed as a platform for a Group A race car. Which it was very successful at. So saying a specific turbo makes it more of a total car, is like saying, giving a super model a specific bra makes her more of a total woman. I've driven a lot of different GTRs, from stock r32-34s, a 400r, 900+ ps T51KAI powered drag monsters and I still have to say my 2530 powered r32 is MY favorite because its mine.