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Old 15th October 2009, 09:59 AM   #1 (permalink)
Fuggles is at Nissan GT-R London
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GTR Warranty and Oil Temperature notification

There has been some discussion of late following people's concerns over oil temperatures and other warranty issues, specifically with regard people wanting to use their cars for track day driving. Nissan have been looking at this to see what changes can be made and also have taken on board the comments made, particularly on this forum. As a result of that and following discussions with Nissan Europe and NMGB and following their discussions with Nissan in Japan there has been a reclarification of the situation. The following is a explanation sent from Nissan

GT-R Update
  • A change in the policy regarding the Transmission Oil replacement
  • Clarification regarding the warranty coverage for driving with ESP/VDC in the “OFF” position

1) Transmission Oil replacement

The GT-R has been on sale in Europe for over 6 months now and during this time our engineers have been surveying the European market and customer usage. As a result of this work we are now in a position to make improvements to the following servicing procedure:
  • ‘Normal operating’ transmission oil temperature upper level has been raised to a maximum of 120'C (was 110'c)
  • Hot usage (extreme driving conditions), where the transmission oil has exceeded 120'C (was 110'C) will need changing within 3000 miles of running at this higher temperature – was 1800 miles.

During extensive testing in normal road conditions, including the Autobahns in Germany, the transmission oil temperature did not exceed 120'C and showed no evidence of degradation whilst running in this condition. Therefore, the top limit of the normal operating oil temperature range has been raised to 120'C. This means that, unless used in extreme conditions, transmission oil changes will only be required at the longer change interval of 18,000 miles or 18 months. The risk of requiring more frequent transmission oil changes has been significantly reduced.

2) Clarification regarding the warranty coverage for driving with ESP/VDC in the “OFF” position

The warranty restriction regarding ESP off is intended to advise customers that Nissan cannot warrant (or guarantee) the performance, safety or stability of the vehicle in this condition.

GT-R is a high performance supercar and as such, ESP is designed to help maintain a high level of dynamic stability. Mechanical failure encountered while driving with ESP Off is covered by warranty, any damage due to lack of driver skill and subsequent loss of vehicle control is obviously not warrantable.

There is no specific risk of mechanical failure from driving with ESP off and there is no intention to reject a warranty claim based on the ESP setting. There has never been a warranty claim rejected in Europe due to this and Nissan has no intention of doing so in the future.

However, it is Nissan’s social responsibility to strongly recommend ‘ESP On’ at all times, to maintain a high level of dynamic stability. The only circumstance Nissan recommends using ‘ESP off’ is to escape from mud/snow at low speeds.



Obviously there will be a rewrite of the owners manual for later sales but this will take time.



Consistent with the fact I do not have the extensive knowledge and detail of this vehicle and am not able to monitor every discussion on this or similar matters the GTROC have asked one of it's members to take a more proactive role in these kind of issues. The intention is to allow serious issues and concerns to be raised and managed in a more coordinated way and for us to work with Nissan to get them to better understand the view of the owner. The GTROC member concerned not only owns a GT-R but also uses it on track. That said this role is not for any whinge or complaint and will only deal with major issues or those that the general GTROC membership and GTR Register usership feels requires consideration. More details about this appoint ment will follow soon.
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Old 15th October 2009, 10:21 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Good news, thanks Fuggles.
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Old 15th October 2009, 10:27 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Brilliant news - well done Nissan for finally listening to its customers and seeing sense!

Just saved me £600!
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Old 15th October 2009, 10:41 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Nice one. Interesting that the transmission oil change interval is still 18 months or 18000 miles, whereas I gathered it was 60000km (37000 miles) in Japan, unsure of the time interval. For a road user like myself that in summer use only saw maximum of 102C on the transmission oil it seems crazy to drop it after what will be about 10000 miles.
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Old 15th October 2009, 10:44 AM   #5 (permalink)
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John,

Thanks for posting this.

What is very positive about this situation is that Nissan have shown that they understand the issues that have concerned GTR owners and potential buyers and that have caused an unnecessary amount of negative publicity about the warranty and servicing requirements.

These three changes completely transform the issue and certainly in my mind move the conditions from being 'onerous' to 'fair'. This is all that I and others owners asked for.

I would add the following comments for information.

1. 120c Operating Oil

Nissan are correct in that getting to 120c on the road is all but impossible. I drove my car on the Autobahns at speeds up to 180mph and during repeated accelerations from 100mph to 180mph over a substantial period, the oil did breach the 110c limit, but was nowhere near 120c.


2. 3,000 mile interval

This brings the European GTRs in line with the Japanese GTR policy. It is very welcome as the 1,800 miles was far too frequent.


3.VDC Off

This is great, as it means that people can consider turning VDC off, such as on a trackday or a driver-training day, to establish how the car handles in VDC-OFF without worrying about an immediate warranty ban.

That said I personally see little reason for most people to ever turn it off. The fact is that VDC-R mode allows a level of yaw before intervening and I don't consider it restrictive.

Anyone who does try it OFF remember that like all GTRs it drives like a rear-wheel drive car at first, until it decides to send power to the front, so it will kick the back out and spin very easily if you just 'boot the throttle'. See David Yu's video at Bedford for proof.

Well done Nissan!
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Old 15th October 2009, 10:58 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Thanks John

Good post Guy

TBH - i don't think it really impacts me, but Nissan have to applauded for making a change, for whatever reason, and putting a lot of people minds slightly more at ease (if not rest)
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Old 15th October 2009, 12:06 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Good news indeed!

So just to clarify my trans oil temp is now ok up to 120 degrees but the engine oil still needs changing over 110 degrees?

I don't think I drive it hard enough to worry about the trans oil temp but the engine oil temp gets close to the 110 limit sitting/crawling along in traffic jams...
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Old 15th October 2009, 12:07 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Good news John

Thanks for the info
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Old 15th October 2009, 12:36 PM   #9 (permalink)
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And FYI


The 5% rule is active so don't jump in the first "scam"
An update to the ECU is coming in 2010 giving more torque and a better mileage.
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Old 15th October 2009, 12:55 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bazza_g View Post
Good news indeed!

So just to clarify my trans oil temp is now ok up to 120 degrees but the engine oil still needs changing over 110 degrees?

I don't think I drive it hard enough to worry about the trans oil temp but the engine oil temp gets close to the 110 limit sitting/crawling along in traffic jams...
I don't think there has ever been a limit for engine oil as the trans temp is always higher.

So just keep an eye on trans temp.

Zeyd, how do you know the 5% rule hasn't been superceded by these changes? And is that 5% over 120c?
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Old 15th October 2009, 01:06 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I am collecting mine tomorrow and steve just rung me to tell me that the warranty is amended with immediate effect and will explain more tomorrow - no doubt in line with the above.

The VDC off was always a disgraceful stance to take and Nissan should be applauded for admitting as such by making the change, and the tranny oil situation is also far more sensible.

D
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Old 15th October 2009, 01:08 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Yes, group 3 limite changed to 120 and 5% rule is kept.

Because nissan France got a FIGHT with japan for us all and we're in very close contact with them.
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Old 15th October 2009, 01:21 PM   #13 (permalink)
Chubby is no longer content with 700bhp and is now going for 850 bhp... but now has 900bhp... Yipee
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Good news indeed, however Nissan have not done there homework very well and although good news for the people who have the car and will require a service soon. I feel the people who have had the oil service should get reimbursed by Nissan for unnecessary work.

And Nissan still needs to answer the questions, why wasn't the oil tested in hotter areas, South of France, Spain etc...??

And why if you can run to 120 deg why did they say 110 deg, and if it can run to 120 can it run higher without loss of quality?

Although this car has been throughly tested on the Ring it obviously hasn't been tested enough or in different surroundings i.e. the Artic Circle or Death Valley!!

Just my thoughts.

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Old 15th October 2009, 01:23 PM   #14 (permalink)
Chubby is no longer content with 700bhp and is now going for 850 bhp... but now has 900bhp... Yipee
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P.S. I'll test it properly for them if they ask nicely...

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Old 15th October 2009, 01:42 PM   #15 (permalink)
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this is good news and sensible too

I'll be flipping the switch at Anglesey

or perhaps not, as I've seen DY's video taken at Bedford
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Old 15th October 2009, 03:17 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David.Yu View Post
I don't think there has ever been a limit for engine oil as the trans temp is always higher.
According to the manual (first time for everything!)

Engine Oil

- up to 110 all is ok
- 110-130 degrees - replace within 1,800 miles
- Over 130 degrees - replace directly


Trans Oil

- Upto 110 (now 120) all is ok
- 110(now 120) - 140 replace within 1,800 (now 3,000 miles)
- Over 140 degress - replace directly

Unless I missed something this is a great result for the trans oil temps and the VDC off issue but the engine oil replacement temp/requirements have stayed the same. On a cool day crawling out of London in a jam I hit 105 after a short space of time, had the jam been a bit longer my 1800 mile oil replacement 'countdown' would have started....
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Old 15th October 2009, 03:30 PM   #17 (permalink)
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At least an engine oil change is not crazy money - I could live with a £200 oil change every 1800 miles if I had to, but £700 for transmission fluids was taking the Michael!

Also, although my transmission temp went over 110 (112) after a fairly hard road drive, the engine oil temp never went over 105.
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Old 15th October 2009, 03:40 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Trouble is as the computer logs the temps an oil change done privatly - i.e. in your own garage is not going to be accepted, an oil change should be able to be performed at your local Nissan dealer, however I would imagine you will have to take it to the HPC's which would mean a 200 mile round trip for me.

Hopefully the next generation R-35 will have better cooling and I will only have to visit the HPC once every 6000 miles.

R.
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Old 15th October 2009, 03:56 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Trouble is as the computer logs the temps an oil change done privatly - i.e. in your own garage is not going to be accepted, an oil change should be able to be performed at your local Nissan dealer, however I would imagine you will have to take it to the HPC's which would mean a 200 mile round trip for me.

Hopefully the next generation R-35 will have better cooling and I will only have to visit the HPC once every 6000 miles.

R.
Who says? It's not as if the computer is going to shut your car down!
Just keep a record of when the oil was changed and the next time your HPC has the car they should be able to reset any records.

Having said that, I'm sure they will raise the engine oil limits to match the gearbox ones. It would be stupid not to, 110c is nothing for engine oil, even weak Mobil 1 0w40.
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Old 15th October 2009, 04:42 PM   #20 (permalink)
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And FYI

The 5% rule is active so don't jump in the first "scam"
An update to the ECU is coming in 2010 giving more torque and a better mileage.
Aha. More progressive reduction of safety margins after an extensive field testing programme (that's us).

So next it's more torque (= more boost) and leaning out the fuel maps! And the real work has been done for Nissan by certain avid mappers on this forum
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