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Old 9th August 2003, 05:42 PM   #441 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by SDB
You then appended this rather sad attempt to justify your mistake, the scales on each axis 'should' be equal but that would have made my point so you 'doctored' them... hence the 'laughable' statement.
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Old 9th August 2003, 05:45 PM   #442 (permalink)
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To repeat, you said things only got worse from the moment you added any weight to the tyre, I said that is not true and subsequently I have been proven correct, you were wrong, you are wrong and you are prepared to twist, squirm, doctor, in fact do almost anything to avoid losing face in such a spectacular way.
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Old 9th August 2003, 05:48 PM   #443 (permalink)
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This is a shame. I'm dissapointed.

It shows that you actually REALLY don't understand, and are not just being awkward.

So, unfortunately I've lost interest now and will go home ready for the start of Leg 3 of Rally Finland tomorrow morning.

If in the mean time anyone is to post that they think mycroft is correct, I will be happy to answer any questions tomorrow.

Otherwise, I can't see any interest or challenge in this conversation.

All the best

Simon
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Old 9th August 2003, 05:50 PM   #444 (permalink)
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Now, i'm off to polish my motorcar, you go polish that appendage between your legs Simon, it seems you are good at that!
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Old 9th August 2003, 05:55 PM   #445 (permalink)
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Originally posted by Mycroft
Now, i'm off to polish my motorcar, you go polish that appendage between your legs Simon, it seems you are good at that!
Pathetic.
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Old 9th August 2003, 06:13 PM   #446 (permalink)
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What's the point of this thread anyway?

When you double the load on a tyre, you increase the grip by 90% or 100% or 110% or something around those values, from what you say.

Why would any mature man have an online discussion for over thirty pages on the subject?
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Old 9th August 2003, 06:50 PM   #447 (permalink)
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Let y=f(x)=ax+b.
f(2x) = a(2x)+b = 2(ax)+b.

HTH.

edit: (some clarification) If you have b=0 you exactly double y when you double x which should be pointed out by my silly use of parenthesis. If you have b<>0 you do not exactly double y for each doubling of x but that is merely a case of offsetting the line.

- JjP
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Old 9th August 2003, 07:00 PM   #448 (permalink)
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''Why would any mature man have an online discussion for over thirty pages on the subject?''

Evos'r'slo, there's the rub, that assumption of maturity is founded on some rocky ground.

I'm just having a laugh at the expense of a twonk.

Mark, not pathetic, shatteringly funny!

So, in answer to the question:-

''Could you tell us all when a disc brake has a pad with a Co-eff friction of 0.45 and is slowed down by it does it mean, assuming flat ground, when the driver has stopped and is holding the car stationary with his foot on the brake, is that same co-eff or is it infinite?''

The answer is as follows.

1/. When the pad is sitting there it has the same co-eff as it always had, so the pad has 0.45 still.

2/. However, when the vehicle is stationary there is in fact a co-efficient of '0' acting on the disc, it has no movement!

3/. What you do have is a clamping force in place and that acts only in the direction it is apllied and sees no movement, it too has no friction except the minute 'searching' force that is called conformity, this is small enough to be ignored.
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Old 9th August 2003, 07:03 PM   #449 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by JPaaso
Let y=f(x)=ax+b.
f(2x) = a(2x)+b = 2(ax)+b.

HTH.

- JjP
Not really matey... some here woudn't understand that if it came along and kicked them on the shins!
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Old 9th August 2003, 07:37 PM   #450 (permalink)
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Isn't nature wonderful.

The simple answer to all that is that if you have been braking and come to a halt the whole thing returns to '0'.

No 'infinite' or near infinite' or anything else, just simple, perfect, beautiful null.

OK, we now know that certain cherished and accepted notions can be as reliable as guessing the weight of a fat bloke in a Hall of Mirrors.
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Old 9th August 2003, 11:33 PM   #451 (permalink)
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Talk about trying to achieve the world's longest thread with a subject, and not random postings as elsewhere.

I can't believe you people are still going on about this, arguing over the internet about something that won't have much impact on your overall life, except for bragging rights, seems pointless to me.
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Old 9th August 2003, 11:40 PM   #452 (permalink)
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No, no, no, no!

There is absolutely no arguing, SDB is an idiot, no arguement...
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Old 9th August 2003, 11:49 PM   #453 (permalink)
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When I said argument, I meant you have different beliefs over a concept in car handling/dynamics, or whatever you wanna call it, and you present your points, introducing different concepts/ideas to support that. I meant a civilised argument.
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Old 10th August 2003, 05:37 AM   #454 (permalink)
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LSR

The reason it's gone on this long is that I was asked to add balance to this discussion, and take it very seriously if someone is giving incorrect information on a thread I have posted on.

Evosareslow

The reason for the discussion is that if it doubles, adding mass to a car would not slow it down, but if it does double, the entire rest of vehicle dynamics technology works.

All the best

Simon
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Old 10th August 2003, 05:59 AM   #455 (permalink)
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Quote:
2/. However, when the vehicle is stationary there is in fact a co-efficient of '0' acting on the disc, it has no movement!
coefficient of what exactly? Are you suggesting that it has a zero friction coefficient?

and as that should just be a 1 liner, I'll go on to the rebound and rebound rate thing... which should be fun.

So tell me Mycroft. Could you please in simple one line descriptions, define rebound, and then rebound rate as you understand them to be?

Cheers

Simon
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Old 10th August 2003, 07:51 AM   #456 (permalink)
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Just a few other things to ask you Mycroft.

Firstly...

You asked this..
Quote:
So, what is your answer to this simple question... 0.45 or Infinite?
Now you're telling us it is neither and that it is zero.

Secondly..
As your words have been proven to mean nothing. I would be very interested in any documented proof you have the the friction coefficient becomes zero once the car has stopped. This sounds like a load of utter 'mycroft' to me, but I am STILL quite willing to be proven wrong.

My personal thoughts are that the Static Friction Coefficient is the measure of how much resistance the surfaces offer to "starting to move" (if you like) and the kinetic friction coefficient is a measure of how much resistance the surfaces offer to "continuing to move", or how much they try to stop the movement.

In which case, I cannot see how either of those change in any way by stopping the car.

Thirdly...
You now agree that adding mass to a car, ultimately reduces it's cornering performance, right?
But you still think that the tyres are able to double their effort with doubling of load? right?

So, could you please explain exactly WHY adding mass to a car reduces its cornering performance?

Cheers

Simon
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Old 10th August 2003, 09:47 AM   #457 (permalink)
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Cool

You are, very successfully, making a fool of yourself Simon.

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Old 10th August 2003, 09:55 AM   #458 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mycroft
You are, very successfully, making a fool of yourself Simon.

LOL - I have to say, I expected more of you, but I'll answer that anyway.

Isn't it strange how many people tell you that you are making a fool of yourself, and yet you are the only one telling me? Don't worry Mycroft, you're right and they're ALL wrong

Are you likely to answer those questions? Didn't think so.
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Old 10th August 2003, 10:10 AM   #459 (permalink)
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Originally posted by SDB
Isn't it strange how many people tell you that you are making a fool of yourself, and yet you are the only one telling me? Don't worry Mycroft, you're right and they're ALL wrong
I can live with that!

Quote:
Originally posted by SDB
Are you likely to answer those questions? Didn't think so.
What questions?

I only see a series of posts that ramble on about being called into service of the greater good [hahaha], another mis-quote of my posts [how many times now???], a further distraction to steer everyone away from the fact that for the fifth time you have been wrong [that's 0/5 Simon] so really matey you have nowhere to go with this... except down...

Could you post a link to the thread where you say you were 'invited' over to here to make a fool of yourself?

Whoever it was, was doing you the biggest dis-service ever!

Are you familiar with the term 'Judas Goat'?
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Old 10th August 2003, 10:49 AM   #460 (permalink)
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Is it just me, or does everyone feel embarrased for Mycroft now? It was funny for a while, but now it's just dull.

If anyone else wants the link to the thread, I'll post it up.

If anyone is still reading this, would they be good enough to let us know whether Mycroft still holds any credibility in their eyes, and whether they think there is anything we've been arguing about that mycroft has the upper hand on?

All the best

Simon
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