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Old 18th May 2011, 09:26 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Adamantium View Post
given the price, I think I'd rather rent a caterfield at £700 a time on a track day. I reckon the gtr costs a lot more than that in consumables each time.

Maybe enjoy the country drive getting there and back - thrash someone else's car then enjoy the drive home.
Well, why post on a thread for a member who wants to track their R
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Old 19th May 2011, 08:30 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I don't want to use the standard brakes because they crack up to easily. Best to buy the AP's now and keep the OEM's aside for when I sell the car. The AP's will without a doubt perform much better and sorry I know these cars are used on track but if I went to buy a car with AP's/Alcons I would be slightly put off, would rather buy one on OEM's that at least looked like it hadn't been tracked to death. Plus the OEM's are more expensive to replace so no brainer.
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Old 19th May 2011, 02:04 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Rays gramlights are cast and don't have good caliper clearance, they were my second choice after tsw.
My 18s and slicks go on the back seat. Job done
Have you removed the rear seats? Couldn't see it working but if it does then this has brought the idea of buying a set of 18" back onto the agenda.
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Old 19th May 2011, 02:20 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Well, why post on a thread for a member who wants to track their R
Because it's perfectly valid to point out a converse opinion.

£700 comes from a)fuel, b) brake pad wear c)transmission oil change and post track service (if both required) to protect warranty and d) a quarter (if not more) of a set of tyres, not to mention depreciation when comparing used value of a non tracked car.

I'm not saying don't do it, I'm saying that for the amount of fun you can have on track in a gtr, you can probably match that in a rental for the same if not less money.
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Old 19th May 2011, 02:33 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I tracked my GTR once (about 2 months ago) and it is a "must to do" experience with the GTR...
My tyres were near the end but to be honest, I didn't kill them so much (did almost 2000 km more after the track day and I am changing them now, with more than 18000 km on the clock...
I didn't exceed tranny temps more than 112 C, so I didn't need changing... I didn't do more than 5, 6 laps in a row though... in total, I did cca 20 laps... (each ca 4,5 km, but the asphalt on our track called Grobnik is VERY ROUGH)
Brake pads and discs... no cracks and pads not damaged, I did a good cool down lap every time before exiting the track...
Post track day inspection - I came to the HPC about month after my track day (I had to do the 18 months service)
I didn't mention my track day, they didn't ask me anything, just changed my oil, told me that the temps were within the limits, told me that the tyres are worn and that I should replace them (I said I know that already, thank you for your care)
I think that you shouldn't worry so much about taking the car to the track... If you take care, NOTHING bad will happen and the HPC doesn't have to know that you were on the track...
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Old 19th May 2011, 05:38 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Depend how hard you drive and the ambient temperature, but in my '09 GTR, the worst day in terms of heat was at Snetterton, where after about 6 laps it reached 139c, then I stopped to avoid triggering the instant need for changing all the diff/gearbox fluids.
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Old 19th May 2011, 06:16 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Because it's perfectly valid to point out a converse opinion.

£700 comes from a)fuel, b) brake pad wear c)transmission oil change and post track service (if both required) to protect warranty and d) a quarter (if not more) of a set of tyres, not to mention depreciation when comparing used value of a non tracked car.

I'm not saying don't do it, I'm saying that for the amount of fun you can have on track in a gtr, you can probably match that in a rental for the same if not less money.
I dont think your numbers quite add up Adam.

Fuel is irrelevant as both cars use it. Tranny oil doesnt need changing as soon as the chequered flag drops and brakes hold up plenty well enough. If you can only get 4 trackdays out of a set of new tyres then adjust your driving style by not ploughing into corners too fast and understeering the life out of them.

Make no mistake they can be expensive to run and the consumables can add up but lets not get carried away.
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Old 19th May 2011, 06:33 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Depend how hard you drive and the ambient temperature,
Yes agreed, also very track dependant. 4 Full on laps at a dry at Goodwood and I am over 120 deg. Trouble then is that a few slow laps do not really get it down enough and if I then do another full on lap and it's back over 120 again. So have to park up in the pits for an hour or so if I want 4 laps.

I hope that a transmission cooler will fix things? Have read about people saying that what you realy need is a rear diff cooler, anyone have any comment on this?


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Old 19th May 2011, 06:37 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Zed Ed has a NISMO rear diff cooler so perhaps he can comment?

D
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Old 19th May 2011, 07:22 PM   #30 (permalink)
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I've already decided now I'm keeping the car, to get a Forge trans cooler fitted.

At Dunsfold, it was hitting 110c in just 2 laps! Not good enough, albeit that is in a tuned car.

I reckon, trans cooler, some type of adjustable coilover to get a decent ride height/camber, (maybe the KW sleeve kit with slightly stiffer springs?) and adjustable anti-roll bars to dial out some of the understeer are next on the list, along with some decent pads.
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Old 19th May 2011, 07:31 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Have you removed the rear seats? Couldn't see it working but if it does then this has brought the idea of buying a set of 18" back onto the agenda.
I put 3 in back, just remove seat cushions and sub woofer enclosure. 8 bolts, 10 mins job done. 4th wheel in boot!
Tyres are the main problem, the cost is outrageous for 20 inch tires. I get used 18 michelin slicks for 200 per set, my Gtr is totally unbelievable on these Tyres. I used them for 2 days at spa and they look as good now as when I got them.
Problem now is I have been told I can't use slicks on uk tracks without roll cage so i need a bolt in cage, or has to be r888 but at least I'm not paying for 20 inch.
You can feel how much lighter the wheels and Tyres are in braking, get those 20s off!!!!
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Old 19th May 2011, 09:16 PM   #32 (permalink)
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With FFL-4 you can hit 160C no problem. They test the oil at 190C for 192hrs. Don't forget to change it after use.

Michelin OEM tyre sizes are good tyres. No problem and better than dunlops I think in my opinion.
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Old 20th May 2011, 12:02 AM   #33 (permalink)
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With FFL-4 you can hit 160C no problem. They test the oil at 190C for 192hrs. Don't forget to change it after use.

Michelin OEM tyre sizes are good tyres. No problem and better than dunlops I think in my opinion.
Sorry enshiu, that statement is misleading at best and pure BS at worst. I know that "information" came from by Edgar (lead FFL4 designer) and you really need to post up his full statement on the performance of FFL4.

You would never get a GR6 to 160c as it would cut out at 145c, and that test result that you "quote" was taken out of context and was not a "real world" gearbox test but a lab based one. The internal temps of the GR6 will in places well exeed what the MFD will display (the temp sensor is in the sump) as some of the upper working especially where the gear faces and clutches operate will have a much higher load and therefore temp.

Posting misinformation like that will not help people make an informed choice IMHO.
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Old 20th May 2011, 08:21 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Sorry enshiu, that statement is misleading at best and pure BS at worst. I know that "information" came from by Edgar (lead FFL4 designer) and you really need to post up his full statement on the performance of FFL4.

You would never get a GR6 to 160c as it would cut out at 145c, and that test result that you "quote" was taken out of context and was not a "real world" gearbox test but a lab based one. The internal temps of the GR6 will in placed well exeed what the MFD will display (the temp sensor is in the sump) as some of the upper working especially where the gear faces and clutches operate will have a much higher load and therefore temp.

Posting misinformation like that will not help people make an informed choice IMHO.
wow 145C limited that's safe. Better than overheated clutches.
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Old 11th June 2011, 05:47 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Read this thread with some interest
I own an Subaru which is very heavily modded and a GTR35, which has Ecutek remap, Y-Pipe and airfilters from Litchfield

If you drive within the limits of the car taking a GTR35 is no more expensive than most other cars i find - my sti5 costs far more to run as a track car as things break and its off the road more often than not and the GTR35 is really a spare for me

I've done several track days - I've done maybe 50 in the Subaru!!

Silverstone cracked the standard brake pads - it lasted one other track day but I was much easier on the brakes that day. I thought the discs were warped and was thinking of upgrading but having changed to Cosworth pads the vibration has gone away and its done 2 great track days with cosworth pads - they are much better pads than standard

The only tyre that is really showing the wear is the front left but it has plenty of normal life left in it

Tranny temperatures are something you can live with and you monitor them all the time - as soon as I'm up to 117c thats it- cool down lap (or 2) and off the track to allow them to cool down - driving slowly for more laps to cool the temps down can, dependent on the circuit be quite a selfish thing to so - especially if your at a narrow circuit like Cadwell

Silverstone gave me some of the hottest temps but it was summer
I used to love Snetterton but its ruined now and no good for GTR's with the inner circuit of the Snetterton 300 - this part is too narrow in places and is partly why my front left is well worn.. plus its not a well done piece of track as there are far too many loose bits of stone and they hit the car very badly so I'm never going there again - not in the GTR at least

Thinking of consumables the pads seems to be holding up very well, discs are fine, tyres - mostly the front left gets the abuse and the rest will do loads of track days (I do have a lot of track day experience so dont abuse this car as much as I could).. I leave that to a 670bhp Subaru with R888 - which the GTR35 cant live with.. but then it shouldnt it weighs 600kg's more!

All in all doing a trackday is a relatively cheap affair if you know how to drive - take some tuition if your a novice - there are plenty of people out there who dont have a clue how to drive or know track etiquette (I find this very much with the Lotus Elise drivers who think they are in some pocket rocket and try and hold you up)

Avoid Snett in a GTR - you'll have lots of stone chips on the soft paintwork otherwise

My favourite circuit in England is easily Oulton park.. I've driven most of the circuits in the UK in my Subaru.... though some I can no longer drive as I cant pass the noise limits
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Old 11th June 2011, 05:54 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Interesting feedback on the new Snetterton 300 circuit sti5brigade, I loved the old circuit and am off to do the new 300 circuit next Tuesday, but based on your comments I am wondering if it is going to be worth the trip.
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Old 11th June 2011, 07:10 PM   #37 (permalink)
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It used to be one of my favourite circuits (in England) and the one that I've done the most track days in - maybe about 10-12 track days in the last 4 years. I used to do Donnington a bit but it was out of action for a long time, is quite restrictive on the noise limits depedent on numbers and when the numbers are lower and the limits higher its a bit pricey - I digress

Snett is (was) well known as a power circuit.. and some found it boring - I used to really love it.. but you had to be very careful on the last bend on the apex or risk knackering your tyres

Now that last bend is almost gone - its easier. They have put in what I will describe as a go-kart part part way round - it is truly, truly awful for a larger car (its suited to the really light weight cars, Atoms, Caterhams, Elises, small vehicles).. I know 2 other drivers who've done this circuit and they absolutely hate it... I dont find it a drivers circuit anymore - it should be good for BTCC viewing as there will be tonnes of crashes - there is one bend that is just way too narrow to take.. we'll see
Its almost like a mini-brands hatch part,.. Brands is much better though as its a lot wider

I went about a month after it opened new and I was absolutely disgusted at the amount of loose stone chips where people had come off and back onto the circuit.. these are things that they can easily sort out and they couldnt be bothered - it knackered my paintwork and I was really hacked off about it

In fact I was so annoyed that I left at lunchtime
Its up to you - if you've got protection on your paint then you can risk it - if you havent it COULD kill it...

Think I'm going to stick more to Oulton and do a few Spa and Nurburg trips this summer

EDITED - I dont really want to put you off it - you need to see it for yourself.. take a different car if you can that doesnt have the same paintwork issues as the GTR.... - I'm fortunate in having my Subaru where paintwork issues arent important.. still even with that in mind I wont be back

Steve
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Old 11th June 2011, 07:46 PM   #38 (permalink)
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The loose stone issue will surely vary from day to day. If a load of people had been off and dragged debris onto the track, that is not the track's fault.

I'm surprised you've found the Cosworth pads to be much better than the stock ones. I presume they're the Track Master ones? I've found they completely lack bite at high speed and actually fade quite badly if used hard.

Would definitel be quite scary at Oulton Park or Spa...

About to try Carbonetic R Spec, which to be fair, Evolution VI told me to use years ago!
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Old 12th June 2011, 12:35 AM   #39 (permalink)
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very few people had come off - I'm talking about driving with a wheel off the tarmac that brings too much debris onto the circuit.. its something after over 50 track days I have never experienced quite so badly - there should not have been as many loose stones in the first place

Re Brakes - No really significant problems at all hauling me from 150 to 60 on many occassions at Cadwell a few weeks ago. I have no idea which ones they are.. they were quite cheap though!

To be honest I tend not to stamp on the brakes too much - something I've learnt with the Subaru and to be more sympathetic.. as you probably need to be with the GTR as it is so much heavier

To be fair I did experience 1 incident of no brakes but I was asking a lot of it and seeing how late I could brake at way too high a speed

I dont want a pad that will kill the discs either (nor one that screeches too much and scrapes as your driving in slow traffic), as its something I experienced far too often with poor quality AP products (their discs are crap).. Performance friction are much, much better quality.. Again I digress

I'm not so concerned about the brakes its the Propshaft noises that I worry about!

I'll leave the technical talk to the people that have done more racing than me
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Old 12th June 2011, 08:13 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I've already decided now I'm keeping the car, to get a Forge trans cooler fitted.

At Dunsfold, it was hitting 110c in just 2 laps! Not good enough, albeit that is in a tuned car.

I reckon, trans cooler, some type of adjustable coilover to get a decent ride height/camber, (maybe the KW sleeve kit with slightly stiffer springs?) and adjustable anti-roll bars to dial out some of the understeer are next on the list, along with some decent pads.
This is where my heads at. The forge cooler is my next step. I saw one being fitted at Litchfields, looks an excellent installation. I expect to follow this by a big brake kit. Only seen the Alcon kit (which looks great but costs a lot compared to the others mods you can have for the same money). Be interested to know if there are other steel big brake kits out there? Ceramics are way over-priced imho. Not considered the suspension upgrades, but shall follow those who do with interest, as we all experience that the poor old tyres take a hell of an inside edge beating due to the camber set-up.

Obviously, the MY2009s are in the last year of their warranty. I think owners who are not selling on, but keeping will enjoy being "free" of the shackles of the "new car that cost big money, keep the warranty intact" mindset. Just like the lads who imported when the price was good and played from day one.

I was at a HPC t'uther day and I was told that Nissan still operate a strict "no mods" policy for HPCs, hence why the HPCs who could offer and support light tuning and simple track prep, don't. Apparantly Nissan GB periodically inspect HPC workshops to check no mods are taking place! Presumably this restriction lifts when cars are out of warranty and some HPCs will address satisfying customer needs and wants out of warranty without restrictions from NMGB?

Unfortunately my wallet and financial commitments can't stretch to the ultimate R35, but I would like to settle on a set-up that allows moderate amateur track day use over most of the track day season (March-Oct), perhaps 7-10 events a year tops. I'm expecting to try the cooler + with standard size aftermarket brakes, and then move to a bigger brake set-up if my driving would benefit.

Certainly, The chaps who have gone the cooler + big brakes seem very happy with this set-up. They mention seeing steady 110s with track use.

I wondered if a diff + tranny cooler option is out there and has been tried + whether that was an improvement or overkill? Not seen the temps diff. cooler alone either
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