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Old 17th February 2012, 02:44 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Understeer...

Hi guys, this is my first post since buying my first GTR just 2 weeks ago.

I have had a little time driving it now and getting used to the beast!

Obviously I am blown away by its sheer power and all the other amazing things about the car but I have noticed now as I push the car that understeer happens very quickly and quite badly, especially at lower speeds.

I have it booked into my local HPC tomorrow for a check over as I bought it privately and want peace of mind. Is the understeer something I should mention to them or is it something inherent to the GTR?

Just for a bit of colour, the car is a 59 plate with original Dunlops on it (4mm-5mm tread) and 11k miles.

If understeer is inherent, what are peoples methods of dialling it out?

Thanks in advance!
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Old 17th February 2012, 02:49 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Do you feel its handling differently to when you first got it ? or are you just pushing it harder now ?

If the handling has changed then definitely mention it, Mention it anyway and they might feel inclined to have a quick poke about while under there... Just to be safe.
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Old 17th February 2012, 03:08 PM   #3 (permalink)
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The GT-R will understeer like a bitch if you push it beyond the limits of it's traction, its designed that way to be safe for the general populous.

To dial it out a little bit set the VDC to race, this will give you a bit more wiggle, to dial it out completely turn it off, then its up to you to keep it facing the right way ;-)

Alternatively slow down a tadge find the limit of its grip and bob's your uncle.
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Old 17th February 2012, 03:37 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Slow in and fast out. The car inherently understeers, but patience is rewarded when you feed the power in. Practise makes perfect.

If the understeer is getting worse or you believe it to be dangerous then get it checked immediately. Original Dunlop's at 11k miles is in my opinion virtually impossible unless it has been driven just to the shops and back. Normal wear would be maximum 9,000 miles. Are you sure that the inner edge of the rears and the outer edge of the fronts are still OK. Also check pressures as they should be 31psi all round.
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Old 17th February 2012, 03:51 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Thanks for responses guys. I think the car has been poodled to the shops and back its entire life as the tyres still look to have ok tread, last service was in December and said 4-5 mm tread and less that 1000miles on it since then. It was whilst in 'R' mode that I noticed the understeer.

The car hasn't gotten any worse, its more that I am progressively pushing it more as I get used to it. I just noticed that it pushes past the limits of adhesion pretty quick on the front.

I am more than open to the possibility that the problem is in the drivers seat! But just wanted to get a gauge from other owners to see what your experiences were.

The tyre pressures are sitting at 29 on the front and 31 on the back (not set by me), I would have thought this would have been better for reducing understeer?
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Old 17th February 2012, 04:13 PM   #6 (permalink)
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They do show their weight and tend to wash out with under steer at lower speeds. Apparently ARBs help cure this, but i haven't got round to fitting them yet.......have a search
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Old 17th February 2012, 04:37 PM   #7 (permalink)
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As mentioned, the standard set up does tend to understeer at low-medium speeds, but with uprated anti-roll bars it becomes much more neutral.

Mine is now so crisp/tight on turn-in that it feels like a complete geometry change, but it's just thicker anti-roll bars.

As also mentioned, if you turn off the traction control, then you have yourself as much oversteer as you could ever want...but you'd still need uprated anti-roll bars to get the crisp turn-in.
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Old 17th February 2012, 04:41 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I've asked Mizuno San about this a couple of times now and officially the car doesn't understeer

There is just a tendency to carry too much speed into the twistees, lol

Slow in, (very) fast out, as has been said

And a good reason why tracking a GTR informs road style.
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Old 17th February 2012, 05:03 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Get your HPC to set up the geometry to track settings, i.e. as much negative camber on the front as they can. Makes a massive difference.

I've always had my car on track setting and not had an issue with uneven tyre wear or excessive tramlining.

Litchfield are about to start selling their uprated suspension kit with different shocks, springs and rear anti-roll bar, but retaining the standard 3 position switch for shock stiffness. Will report back on it when it's fitted to my car, but it's primary purpose is to reduce/eliminate understeer.

2011-onwards models understeer less than earlier models.
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Old 17th February 2012, 05:11 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Tyre tread isn't the whole story with rubber. Any tyre has a certain number of heat cycles in it before it's past its best. Good tread depth doesn't always mean good grip. I speak as the previous owner of a Corvette Z06. Rear tyres on that car could still have 3/4mm of tread and be utterly useless after 6000 miles. Obviously with an AWD car they'll last longer than that but worth thinking about.
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Old 17th February 2012, 06:14 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willgts View Post
Hi guys, this is my first post since buying my first GTR just 2 weeks ago.

I have had a little time driving it now and getting used to the beast!

Obviously I am blown away by its sheer power and all the other amazing things about the car but I have noticed now as I push the car that understeer happens very quickly and quite badly, especially at lower speeds.

I have it booked into my local HPC tomorrow for a check over as I bought it privately and want peace of mind. Is the understeer something I should mention to them or is it something inherent to the GTR?

Just for a bit of colour, the car is a 59 plate with original Dunlops on it (4mm-5mm tread) and 11k miles.

If understeer is inherent, what are peoples methods of dialling it out?

Thanks in advance!
Your car is almost like mine although mine is twice the mileage. I also noticed the understeer although I am suspecting poor road surface and condition. My rears are new and front around 5mm. However the PSI on all wheels are different so I will sort that out this weekend to see if it makes any diff.
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Old 17th February 2012, 06:35 PM   #12 (permalink)
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"If you experience understeer in a car, 90% of the time it's driver induced" is what a race instructor once told me. He then proceeded to show me the same corner being taken twice - once with loads of understeer, once with oversteer. All just down to input. The car certainly did not change between the laps.

I find the GT-R is quite susceptible to driving style. Some people are extremely digital when it comes to driving fast. By that I mean not smooth, and very "on off" with their inputs (steering, throttle, and brake).

I have always found the GT-R because of it's weight does not like to be driven like an Evo or a Subaru. It likes to settle into corners progressively, so that means smoothing out your inputs, carrying speed, and using the power. Going into a roundabout hard, and then steering suddenly will provoke understeer.

Try and smooth the driving out as much as you can, and the car is so much more rewarding IMO.

Also, unless you corner really hard, the GT-R tends to just run on the inside of it's tyres and they wear quickly. This can cause understeer when these get low. Just corner harder, which will stand the tyre up more in the corners and work witht he camber.
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Old 17th February 2012, 07:09 PM   #13 (permalink)
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.... a race instructor once told me....
An instructor many years ago told me " you're braking too hard and driving like it's a race ".

It was only my 2nd driving lesson on L plates though

Genuinely though, there are many inherantly understeering cars, although most don't go on track for that reason! Although I've driven Subaru's that were terrible for understeer.

I've also driven cars that are transformed on track from lairy oversteering drift machines, into something that feels like it's on rails as it's so neutral, into an initially understeering car... all in the same car, same day on the same track, merely by changing to different sized tyres (both sets were Toyo 888) and also playing with pressures.
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Old 17th February 2012, 10:05 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Arbs dial this right out and with the TC set on race it's the rear end you will be worrying about
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Old 18th February 2012, 09:09 AM   #15 (permalink)
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is that just front ARB`s that is required then?
who sells them? what make?

what degree of camber do people run? - whats the difference between "road" and "track"?

cheers
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Old 18th February 2012, 06:01 PM   #16 (permalink)
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is that just front ARB`s that is required then?
who sells them? what make?

what degree of camber do people run? - whats the difference between "road" and "track"?

cheers
No just the rear Nick to dial out some of the understeer unless you want to fit a pair ... nice to see you today BTW
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Old 18th February 2012, 06:48 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Eibach seem to be popular and well priced. SVM and Litchfield sell them amongst others.

Litchfield include the Eibach rear ARB as part of their suspension kit.
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Old 18th February 2012, 06:55 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I would suggest one of the best things to do is to take a cat performance driver day or over grip handling day at millbrook and then you will learn just what you and the car can do!

Went on mine last October and since then have had no problems with understeer!
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Old 18th February 2012, 06:58 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I would suggest one of the best things to do is to take a cat performance driver day or over grip handling day at millbrook and then you will learn just what you and the car can do!

Went on mine last October and since then have had no problems with understeer!
Very good advise
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Old 18th February 2012, 07:14 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I would suggest one of the best things to do is to take a cat performance driver day or over grip handling day at millbrook and then you will learn just what you and the car can do!

Went on mine last October and since then have had no problems with understeer!
CAT day is highly recommended.

But summer tyres on wet roads at 1-2*C....tyres will slip.
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