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Old 19th September 2012, 10:00 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Unhappy At my wits end with brake squeal! Heeelllpppp!!

Hey everybody..

Firstly, I'm aware that there previous posts about brake squeal and I have searched and read all the information I can find to no avail.

Car is a 33gtst with standard calipers. I got the car back in June and it had the squeal when I bought it. I thought it would be an easy fix, so I wasn't worried.

First port of call was some new discs and pads. Got some Piranha discs just to see the difference it made to squeal, also with new Ferrodo road pads. I clocked up the discs for run out and the offending disc was actually running the truest of the two. This didn't fix the squeal.

The squeal is loud whenever I use the brakes, the harder I use them and the hotter it gets, the louder it becomes. It's unbearable, I can't drive the car properly because of it! I observed bedding in procedures, firstly being gentle and then later trying some stops from higher speeds.

Anyway, since then I have done the following:

Replaced discs again for DBA4000's following advice that it could be down to disc material.

Replaced pads with some blueprint ones and then also tried Nissan pads.

Replaced all anti squeal shims with new Nissan ones. Both rubber and steel one as well as clips.

Replaced caliper pins

Swapped discs and all hardware left to right but squeak stays on same side.

Rebuilt caliper

Replaced caliper with freshly rebuilt second hand caliper using fresh seals

Tried adhesive squeal shims

Copper slipped everything and also tried without. Also tried no shims and also half of the shims but no difference.

So basically, I have replaced everything on the outside of the hub yet the squeal remins the same. It does change slightly with different pads, but is equally as loud either way.

Any other suggestions? The hub feels like there's no play, but could it be possibly bearings or something to do with the hub? I'm going to clock the disc again tomorrow, but feel like I'm clutching at straws.

Any suggestions or help would be much appreciated.

All the best

Al
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Old 19th September 2012, 10:39 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I find that 9 times out of ten that the edges of the pads that touch the caliper edge are culprit, have you lubed these?
Factory comes with little corner clips that hold this edge slightly proud and are gone on most cars i see, do you still have these clips?
Also lube the retaining pins contact points. Make sure that the pad moves freely without binding on anything.

Nate
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Old 19th September 2012, 10:51 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Yeah, have tried this. I replaced those clips, tried filing the edge of the pad smooth, I've tried cleaning and lubing the contact area in the caliper too. I've lubed the pins and renewed them, using high temp molykote 44 and also just copper slip..

Just been reading an article on the net, I'm thinking ball joint replacement. Perhaps it's what the caliper is bolted to that's causing the vibration...

I can't believe how much of an epic quest this has turned out to be..
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Old 19th September 2012, 11:03 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Won't be much help sorry but bet it'll be such a easy fix in the end and you'll laugh so much! On a much shorted scale I once spent 6 hours trying to remove suspension on my d GS300, couldn't get it over and around the hub, lower arm etc, my brother came from college, looked at it and took it out within 3 minutes! Felt like a right buster and laughed at myself quite a fair bit
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Old 19th September 2012, 11:18 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Indeed, that always seems to be the case in these situations. I just hope I sort it soon, I'm running out of space to put all the spare stuff in accumulating!
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Old 20th September 2012, 06:16 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Just had a reread of your first post and didn't note that this was on one side only.
Next step i reckon is to get a dial gauge onto your hub and check it is square.
If you have swapped everything else over and it is on 1 side only i would pick that your hub/hub face is bent.
I gather there is no scale/rust build up on the hub face surface?

Nate
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Old 20th September 2012, 07:07 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I haven't actually clocked the face of the hub as the disc was previously running true so assumed this would be ok. I did however clean the hub face with a small wire wheel in a dremel. I've also tried copper slipping this face to see if that made any difference. The face of the hub looks in good condition, but I'll clock this later too and see what's going on there..

Thanks again for the input guys, It's much appreciated. Im still doubtful its anything to do with any parts on the outside of the hub face as I've repeatedly swapped changed and cleaned anything there.. I'm thinking the vibration is coming from beyond the caliper. The knuckle it bolts to had a lower ball joint, but what's in the top of this part, where it swivels? I guess if there's any fault at any pivot point of the hub, then this could also vibrate, right?
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Old 20th September 2012, 07:33 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I can actually use the brakes very gently without any noise at all. It's only as I apply more pressure that the noise gets louder, the harder I press, the louder it gets.

Here's a couple of snippets from some footage from the Pyrenees earlier this year. I spent the whole time driving about slowly as I couldn't bear to hear the brake squeal! You can hear exactly what it sounds like here, although it is even louder than this with harder braking!

Squeal! - Video here
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Old 20th September 2012, 10:32 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Have you chamfered off the edges of the brake pads? Also how long are the pads on before you change them after the squeal? Some of these pads have a bedding in material that will squeal for a while until they are bedded in. Exactly the case with my red stuff pads.

Edit:- just read your post again, you have tried the chamfering.

If you have swapped everything over and the squeal remains one side, then surely it is not your brakes but something related. Is the brake disk surround not catching on the disk?
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Old 20th September 2012, 11:05 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Yeah, tried chamfering all edges of the pads. The surround is also clear and not rubbing either. Anyway, I just bit the bullet and booked it into a specialist, I don't think I can handle this anymore, it's enough to break a man! I'll keep you all posted on the outcome for future reference..
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Old 20th September 2012, 09:13 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I have a pair of calipers here if you want to try another calpier.
I bet its the backplate not the brakes making all the noise. Damp it.
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Old 20th September 2012, 09:46 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Cool, cheers for the offer. I picked up a second hand pair for £40 on fleabay and rebuilt one. The back plate feels good and clears everything around it. It doesn't sound rattley if you hit it or whatever.. What do you suggest for damping? Stick some sticky foam pads on it? I was going to orherwise further investigate the ball joint and king pin bearings this weekend and see if there's anything going on there.. Hope you're all good anyway? We're overdue a pint
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Old 20th September 2012, 10:08 PM   #13 (permalink)
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If it is the backplate I will kick myself!
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Old 20th September 2012, 10:24 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGALR33 View Post
Cool, cheers for the offer. I picked up a second hand pair for £40 on fleabay and rebuilt one. The back plate feels good and clears everything around it. It doesn't sound rattley if you hit it or whatever.. What do you suggest for damping? Stick some sticky foam pads on it? I was going to orherwise further investigate the ball joint and king pin bearings this weekend and see if there's anything going on there.. Hope you're all good anyway? We're overdue a pint
Yes, the overdue pint. I need to see you over the weekend sometime. I'll bell you saturday.
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Old 21st September 2012, 06:40 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Cool, I'll be tinkering about all day Saturday, feel free to call whenever. Would be good to see you
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Old 22nd September 2012, 10:43 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Just pulled my suspension apart, the top outer bush is completely boogered.. I think I may be onto something!
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Old 27th September 2012, 04:07 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quick update...

Upon finding some play in the top outer bushes, I have fitted a lovely spanking pair of Whiteline adjustable camber bushes, and whilst I was at it, changed the ball joint for good measure and checked the lower arm bushes whilst I was there.

I have also checked the king pin bearings which seem to have no play, but tweaked them up tighter anyway.

The brake squeal is still there, exactly the same as it was. I have changed the pads to some resurfaced ones, I since took extra care at smoothing all contact edges and even filing leading edges onto the metal parts where they contact the caliper, this combined with a rough up of the rotors with some emery roll. - Still no joy.

This leaves me with the conclusion that the hub is perhaps not completely square to the disc, or the only possible other component that hasn't been changed is the wheel bearing, although this does seem unlikely. I've had a fiddle with the splash guard and bent it a little to see if this made any difference but still nothing.

Today I have ordered a compelete second hand upright including the hub, so this will be going on tomorrow... - Fingers crossed!
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Old 27th September 2012, 04:46 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I had a problem the thing that cured mine was a spirited drive through the yorkshire dales after that didn't hear a peep out of mine
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Old 27th September 2012, 06:44 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I wish it was that simple! I recently did a 3500 mile spirited drive around Europe, it sounded the same the day I left as to what it did when I got back.. It seems the harder I try the louder it gets!
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Old 27th September 2012, 06:45 PM   #20 (permalink)
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But that's partly just down to mental trauma..
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