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Old 23rd March 2014, 09:35 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lith View Post
Again, the turbo is only one part of the puzzle. It can't make the engine any more efficient than it is - it just gives it more atmosphere to play with.



Clearly, it made the power.



Sure - a 4litre straight six Ford :https://www.facebook.com/FullRaceMot...?stream_ref=10



It's running over 20psi in that clip - though it's also on E85, and if you consider those cars weigh near 2000kg and it did a mid 9 and mid 140mph it is also making more power than you'd get from a GT4094R.
awesome car and the terminal certainly proves its making big power, but it must be over 30 psi let alone over 20 surely especially being on e85.

either way still a monster of a car making a lot of power


id love to try one on my motor to see a true comparison but its a lot of expense to do it, and from what ive seen so far of rb runs not much to gain.
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Old 23rd March 2014, 10:38 PM   #42 (permalink)
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lag is not cool, neither is a turbo that has to be taken to such a PR to flow the highest amount of air mass, that requires everything to be up to the task, hoses, map sensor, etc.
I would prefer a comp map that flows good on a lower PR. on which turbo that is? I dont know... I see pt doesnt show comp maps but most people take it to high pressures to flow enough, this efr to 2bar is on the edge for my liking...
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Old 24th March 2014, 02:22 AM   #43 (permalink)
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You don't need to run 2bar to make 700hp on an EFR if your engine is not shit.

Sub Boy's car has already come up in this thread, has >700bhp on an internally gated EFR8374 on BP98 using only 20psi with full boost before 3500rpm on an RB30 - on an RB26 that will still be at decent rpm. The turbo can do >700hp on 20psi of boost with petrol, I know RB30s are not the same as RB26s but we've shown dyno plots of EFRs making that power and spooling that fast... lots of excuses, no better results, so what's the conclusion?
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Old 24th March 2014, 04:49 AM   #44 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=jasaircraft;2611930]lag is not cool, neither is a turbo that has to be taken to such a PR to flow the highest amount of air mass, that requires everything to be up to the task, hoses, map sensor, etc.
QUOTE]

People are forgetting the most important thing... FUEL (or specifically, octane)
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Old 24th March 2014, 05:12 AM   #45 (permalink)
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yeah but, how much money into the engine? if he made 700bhp at 20psi thats great!
400cc really makes a difference, after tuning a 2JZ ems a couple of days ago you can really feel the extra torque and reaction of the engine... this is on 150-160psi of compresion pressure with a chinese journal bearing turbo.
20psi is far from the highest flowing PR as you can see in the 8374 comp map but hey if its enough to flow 700bhp...
but then again if 700bhp was you target you could have probably achieved that number with a smaller efr on a higher pressure (having in mind 20psi is far from the highest flow PR area on the 8374 comp map) improving that way your spool up too...
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Old 24th March 2014, 05:22 AM   #46 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=bigmikespec;2612378]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasaircraft View Post
lag is not cool, neither is a turbo that has to be taken to such a PR to flow the highest amount of air mass, that requires everything to be up to the task, hoses, map sensor, etc.
QUOTE]

People are forgetting the most important thing... FUEL (or specifically, octane)
yes that is important too, det is not a nice thing, also high air intake temp.
Although I am thinking its not that much the pressure that promotes det but the amount of air mass you are introducing into the combustion chamber, wheter it its at a high or low pressure if the mass is the same etc etc
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Old 24th March 2014, 08:28 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Remember that a lot of boost doesn't have to mean a lot of lag.
A few weeks ago I saw an Audi 2.2l engine which produced 850whp at 3.4bar of boost with a response like nothing I've seen before.
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Old 24th March 2014, 08:48 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Sub boys car makes 589 hp at the hubs so add 70 if it was tuned at all 4 hubs so it's 659 hp.

Geoffs car made 765 hub hp with 32 psi up it, ive already overplayed all the plots in the other thread and once the boost drops off at 8k rpm it's not making much more power than mine, and Geoffs was run in 2wd sae cf, mine in 4wd sae j1349 cf, I don't understand why they used the old sae cf when sae j1349 doesn't scew results when the temp probe gets a high reading.


Quote:
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You don't need to run 2bar to make 700hp on an EFR if your engine is not shit.

Sub Boy's car has already come up in this thread, has >700bhp on an internally gated EFR8374 on BP98 using only 20psi with full boost before 3500rpm on an RB30 - on an RB26 that will still be at decent rpm. The turbo can do >700hp on 20psi of boost with petrol, I know RB30s are not the same as RB26s but we've shown dyno plots of EFRs making that power and spooling that fast... lots of excuses, no better results, so what's the conclusion?
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Old 24th March 2014, 10:40 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Sub boys car makes 589 hp at the hubs so add 70 if it was tuned at all 4 hubs so it's 659 hp.
Not sure where you got 589hp at the rear hubs for my car?

It is 630hp at all four hubs, so in 2wd who knows.......over 700?
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Old 24th March 2014, 01:36 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Not sure where you got 589hp at the rear hubs for my car?

It is 630hp at all four hubs, so in 2wd who knows.......over 700?
630 at all four hubs is 700 crank hp, I thought you made 589 at all 4 hubs maybe that was an earlier tune plot in your build thread sorry my mistake.
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Old 24th March 2014, 01:58 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Not sure where you got 589hp at the rear hubs for my car?

It is 630hp at all four hubs, so in 2wd who knows.......over 700?

Have you logged a 30-130 time mate?
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Old 24th March 2014, 01:58 PM   #52 (permalink)
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i should have my results soon with the efr 9180 on a stroked rb30, but if i can make 700+ whp for now ill be over the moon :-)
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Old 24th March 2014, 02:14 PM   #53 (permalink)
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the problem with comparing dyno plots is what correction is used as there is sae, and sae j1349 and din.

they are all very similar at room temp for the temp probe, but if we hang that probe under the bonnet and get just in the 50s degrees area things change dramatically, even a very hot day can have a huge effect.


I have a plot I can add here if necasary showing the following.

at an average 57degrees temp the plot shows the following :

530 hp measured power at all 4 hubs

corrected to din standards that is 590 hp

corrected to sae standard that is 808 hp ! I don't think that is sae j1349 though I think it is an older sae its something im still looking into.


whereas at about 22 degrees probe temp the correction would be 0 and power output figure would stay at 530 hp, to be able to accurately compare these plots ideally the probe temp plot is needed and the uncorrected figures.
ive got all the uncorrected plots for my mapping sessions, my latest made 637 hub power uncorrected, 641 sae j1349 corrected and 655 din corrected.

id sure like to do a more in depth comparison if any of the plots are available uncorrected, corrected to din, sae, sae j1349 and the temp probe plots.


if any of those plots are available can they be added to this thread please


https://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/169320-gt4094r-rb27.html


I can try and do a better more accurate comparison then
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Old 25th March 2014, 06:46 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Have you logged a 30-130 time mate?
No I haven't, what gear do you do it in? KPH or MPH?
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Old 25th March 2014, 07:01 AM   #55 (permalink)
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No I haven't, what gear do you do it in? KPH or MPH?

Mph mate scooby slayer starts in 1st, comparing dyno numbers just isn't correct for me I've seen massive differences in dyno's in the past. Rich at amt made 100bhp less on a dyno dynamic compared to a hub dyno so I think speed runs like 30-130 is the only true way to no
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Old 25th March 2014, 08:15 AM   #56 (permalink)
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No I haven't, what gear do you do it in? KPH or MPH?

30 to 130 mph using as many gears as necasary to get the best time. I've got a racelogic performance box but a lot of modern ecus can log it apparantly, ideally needs to be manual h pattern clutch shifts to be comparable
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Old 25th March 2014, 08:37 AM   #57 (permalink)
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Mph mate scooby slayer starts in 1st, comparing dyno numbers just isn't correct for me I've seen massive differences in dyno's in the past. Rich at amt made 100bhp less on a dyno dynamic compared to a hub dyno so I think speed runs like 30-130 is the only true way to no


rich made 745 whp at 1.7 bar on a dyno dynamics, and 900 at 2.2 bar on the dynapack knocking 0.5 bar of the dynapack should knock at least 80 whp of the dynapack run so around 820 hub power at 1.7 bar.

now if we add the 70 hp to hub figure to get approx flywheel that's 890 flywheel hp.

dyno dynamics if we add 22% (I think that's what it adds for projected flywheel for 4x4), that's 908 crank hp.


before anyone says it and dismisses the flywheel figure and says its meaningless, it is the only way to have any half comparable data and a lot better comparison than hub to wheel imo.

my r33 for example makes around 650 hub power, it would be around 600 whp on a dyno dynamics.
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Old 25th March 2014, 10:53 AM   #58 (permalink)
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I hope you've got a decent gearbox if your talking lb/ft ......
What gearbox are you using?
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Old 25th March 2014, 10:54 AM   #59 (permalink)
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around 700 torque
that would be great for now
What gearbox are you gonna use?
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Old 3rd April 2014, 12:10 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Thought I might just throw this out here - one of the NZ drifters just got his RB30DET (actually with a head and manifolding built more for drags than drift/response so room to improve here) 1.05a/r EFR8374 tuned on E85, put out "900bhp" (818hp @ hubs) on 24psi and 737hp @ hubs on 20psi. With smaller tube header and a less aggressive head it should be able to pick up a fair bit more response but at this stage he seems happy with what it has provided so I'd say it may stay like this for a bit.
https://www.facebook.com/zpdrift33/p...type=1&theater

Again, this is just an EFR8374... you guys SURE these turbos need lots of boost to make power?
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