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Old 13th December 2013, 03:20 PM   #1 (permalink)
pulsarboby is Torque Of The South Motorsport
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any ideas anyone please?

without going into lots of detail

I recently had a stage 4.5 map put on my ap but the car was actually slower than its ever been before.
spoke to the mapper who said its detecting false knock so is pulling timing back out and suggested could be bellhousing issue so get it sorted and report back with new log.

anyway had the housing checked and no play hardly at all, so filled up with fresh tank of v power from a different garage, had a service done at kaizers (no faults found) no error codes.
so took the car on a hard pull in third and ran another datalog and guess what.......readings and knock values are still high.
mapper said theres little else he can do so ive now gone back to the original base map and the cars quicker than its ever been, knock levels have reduced significantly but are still higher than I should be seeing

its an svm stage 4 prior to the 4.5 map being installed.

im now wondering where do I go from here as there appears to be no faults with the car as such and definitely no knocks from engine and car holds good oil pressure too.

wondering whether its worth ditching the cobb in favour of ecutek and getting iain to try map that at stage 4

any ideas guys as im kind of in limboland with it at the moment
money I spent on map is wasted money, cars still quick as you like but not stage 4 or 4.5 quick if you know what I mean.
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Old 13th December 2013, 03:28 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Why doesn't the mapper take a bit of timing out of the map and see if the knock disappears? The ECU will probably take a lot out if it detects knock as a precaution against causing piston damage due to detonation. Personally if I was in your situation I'd get rid of the Cobb as Ecutek now seems to have much better developments, such as the improved traction control, compared to Cobb.
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Old 13th December 2013, 03:34 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pulsarboby View Post
without going into lots of detail

I recently had a stage 4.5 map put on my ap but the car was actually slower than its ever been before.
spoke to the mapper who said its detecting false knock so is pulling timing back out and suggested could be bellhousing issue so get it sorted and report back with new log.

anyway had the housing checked and no play hardly at all, so filled up with fresh tank of v power from a different garage, had a service done at kaizers (no faults found) no error codes.
so took the car on a hard pull in third and ran another datalog and guess what.......readings and knock values are still high.
mapper said theres little else he can do so ive now gone back to the original base map and the cars quicker than its ever been, knock levels have reduced significantly but are still higher than I should be seeing

its an svm stage 4 prior to the 4.5 map being installed.

im now wondering where do I go from here as there appears to be no faults with the car as such and definitely no knocks from engine and car holds good oil pressure too.

wondering whether its worth ditching the cobb in favour of ecutek and getting iain to try map that at stage 4

any ideas guys as im kind of in limboland with it at the moment
money I spent on map is wasted money, cars still quick as you like but not stage 4 or 4.5 quick if you know what I mean.
What have you added to the car to warrant the 4.5 map over the 4?

Is it an OTS map from Cobb or a custom one?
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Old 13th December 2013, 03:52 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Have to agree with Flynn, what's been done to warranty the 4.5 map?
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Old 13th December 2013, 04:06 PM   #5 (permalink)
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nothing guys

its running 1000cc id injectors, 80mm intakes, k&n, full gtc titanium system, forge bov's, forge cooler kit
its a custom map I had done and maps marked as 4.5

was at srr a while back when it was on stage 4 and Charlie said needs a new map as car was barely making 600 ponies but the torque figure was well down on what it should have been
charlies had enough of these go through the dyno there so has a very good idea of what torque / bhp the cars should be making and said mine was a fair bit down on others hes seen at the same level, so hence the remap

ive worked out that ecu's pulling about 4 degree of timing out when max knock is detected so as you can imagine that's quite a bit of lost right foot action lol
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Old 13th December 2013, 04:33 PM   #6 (permalink)
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nothing guys

its running 1000cc id injectors, 80mm intakes, k&n, full gtc titanium system, forge bov's, forge cooler kit
its a custom map I had done and maps marked as 4.5

was at srr a while back when it was on stage 4 and Charlie said needs a new map as car was barely making 600 ponies but the torque figure was well down on what it should have been
charlies had enough of these go through the dyno there so has a very good idea of what torque / bhp the cars should be making and said mine was a fair bit down on others hes seen at the same level, so hence the remap

ive worked out that ecu's pulling about 4 degree of timing out when max knock is detected so as you can imagine that's quite a bit of lost right foot action lol
If you follow the Litchfield "style" of stages, then youve got a stage 4 car, old bean.
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Old 13th December 2013, 04:36 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I don't know how you can just throw on a Stage 4.5 map onto a stage 4 car??? Definately doesn't sound right!!!

Anyhow...Ditch the COBB and Speak to Amar or Kev at SVM (Since it is a SVM Stage 4) and get them to upgrade you to Ecutek and custom tune!

I'm pretty certain that a Stage 4.5 map would require uprated turbos??? I could be wrong...
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Old 13th December 2013, 04:40 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I don't know how you can just throw on a Stage 4.5 map onto a stage 4 car??? Definately doesn't sound right!!!

Anyhow...Ditch the COBB and Speak to Amar or Kev at SVM (Since it is a SVM Stage 4) and get them to upgrade you to Ecutek and custom tune!

I'm pretty certain that a Stage 4.5 map would require uprated turbos??? I could be wrong...
If you follow the Litchfield stages, then yes, it includes turbos.

No need to ditch the Cobb, they are perfectly good at what they do.

The stage numbers ie... 4, 4.5, 9 , 1,000,000 is subjective. Its just a number set against a set of mods.

Just get your car mapped by someone decent, preferable on the road, and you'll be golden.
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Old 13th December 2013, 04:43 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
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If you follow the Litchfield "style" of stages, then youve got a stage 4 car, old bean.
sorry don't get ya?
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Old 13th December 2013, 04:46 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Your mods indicate a stage 4 car if you follow the general consensus of what a stage 4 cars is. ie. Exhaust, intakes, injector, downpipes....

Im assuming you havent uprated your turbos?

Forget the stage numbers anyway. Its b*llocks. Its just a method to categories the different levels of modification.

Who mapped the car?
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Old 13th December 2013, 05:08 PM   #11 (permalink)
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ah right got ya.........yep as you say stages mean booger all really but tubbys are stock so must be 4 with remap

not gonna say who mapped it as don't want this turning into a tuna bashing thread lol but hes a respected mapper.
and to be fair to him if its showing false knock then he can only go with the data supplied and maybe as previously said pull a bit of timing out to try lower the knock levels

but ive heard after talking to a few people that have been in a similar boat lately that have reverted to ecutek and problem solved so is a bit of a gamble which is why I want to know what a few of you's reckon on here.
not a debate for whats the best but simply if anyones had similar troubles and decided to ditch the cobb and after results with the all singing dancing ecutek
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Old 13th December 2013, 05:11 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Surely if you have a Stage 4 SVM and it is not performing, you speak to SVM likewise if it was a Litchfield Stage 4 ?
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Old 13th December 2013, 05:13 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Ditching the cobb for ecutek won't fix your problem if its not mapped right

Remapping your car properly will, whichever format you choose
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Old 13th December 2013, 05:29 PM   #14 (permalink)
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yep il speak to amar and see if he can shed some light on it
just a booger to try get hold of him then I forget all about it for a while

il try giving him a bell tomorrow see if he has any ideas!
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Old 13th December 2013, 05:59 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYNN View Post
If you follow the Litchfield stages, then yes, it includes turbos.

No need to ditch the Cobb, they are perfectly good at what they do.

The stage numbers ie... 4, 4.5, 9 , 1,000,000 is subjective. Its just a number set against a set of mods.

Just get your car mapped by someone decent, preferable on the road, and you'll be golden.
Valid point Flynn!

The point I was making was whether you follow Litchfields Stage numbers or SVMS - Stage 4.5 is a turbo Upgrade??? OP's car clearly does not have uprated turbo's so why is there a 'Stage 4.5' map being thrown onto it?

As I understand it - OP's mods suggest a Litchfield Stage 4 - or SVM's Stage 4/4.25 if it has downpipes? Either way...it just sounded wrong to me that there was a Stage 4.5 map on there...

But then again...maybe I'm talking total bollox
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Old 13th December 2013, 06:07 PM   #16 (permalink)
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The numbers mean bugger all.

Just get it mapped correctly. No problem then
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Old 13th December 2013, 06:48 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Apologies if I haven't understood this, but I find it hard to believe SVM would suggest a s4.5 map for an s4 set up!

Was this something you sought else where i.e. you went to independent mapper in the hope of more power or was it SVM that carried out the upgrade?
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Old 13th December 2013, 09:18 PM   #18 (permalink)
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pulsarboby is your Cobb AP firmware up to date?
I ask as there are so few parameters in the datalog you posted back in October; or is it that you simply reduced the parameters down to what you were asked for?
Also, I understand you have downpipes, so full decat, in addition to the mod's listed above?

Main knock event, i.e. >600 looks like it occurred following throttle lift after change up to fourth gear, but no throttle position or throttle sensor in log to confirm - do you have an updated map and log since that run?
When you do the log runs ensure TC is in R mode so that it doesn't intervene as easily - in the log the onset of knock appears to occur following recovery from TC intervention mid 2nd gear pull.

With the later Cobb firmware you could log knock per cylinder to see if it is being detected across all cylinders simultaneously (so extraneous noise), but that might not be conclusive.

Irrespective of origin of mod's on your car, I'd speak to Sly if he services your car about EcuTek and look to try it for yourself; I doubt you'd want to go back due to the higher resolution maps, never mind the feature set (I used Cobb two years ago, so experienced the improvement for myself back then).

We met at Millbrook earlier this year and I recall how much you enjoy your motor; anyway good luck with this, hope you get sorted soon,

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Old 14th December 2013, 11:49 AM   #19 (permalink)
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hiya fella
yep I remember you from milbrook earlier this year with your akropovic, hope alls going well up in geordieland.

the map wasn't done by svm and im assuming its a 4.5 map as that's the info that comes up on the ap when I initially loaded it onto the car.

the datalog readings were what the mapper asked for but I can do another datalog with more parameters and as you rightly say you can list knock per cylinder so il try another datalog soon as I get a spare bit of time but il have to load that map back onto the car as ive removed it in favour of one of the base type maps installed as car seems to run better with that.
the ap software is all upto date so shouldn't be a prob there.

so are you running with ecutek now or still on cobb? sorry not really clear on what you have
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Old 14th December 2013, 03:00 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Everything's great thx, looking forward to another day at Millbrook!

A log with your current (preferred) map would be a useful reference if you get an opportunity. Is that one an off the shelf map or a custom map?

I changed to EcuTek over a year ago and have never looked back - pity you're not nearby as it would be great for you to drive my car (pretty much the same type of mod's) and feel the difference yourself. I understand the guys offer a money back if not satisfied service, so seriously worth a look. Sly and Ben both do EcuTek.

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