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Old 9th May 2014, 10:15 AM   #1 (permalink)
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I think I've spotted the flaw....

I took my GTR into Nissan today to get the brakes looked at and I've a courtesy car. They were going to give me an electric car (don't know which model), which I quite liked the idea of as I've never driven one before. Then they asked how far I was going ? About 80 miles round trip. In that case, came the reply, you can't have one as it's too far.

You see, I think I've spotted the flaw with electric cars there then - they are useless. But how come I worked out they are useless in 2 microseconds but manufacturers don't seem to have ?
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Old 9th May 2014, 10:18 AM   #2 (permalink)
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As soon as the range is improved then I will certainly have one for daily driving!!
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Old 9th May 2014, 10:21 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Here goes...

I did a round trip of 84 miles per day in my electic car.
The same one you saw, it's called a LEAF.

But being a GT-R driver you probably were not expected to know how to drive the car for decent range. You can't floor it everywhere.

Hence they probably decided to err on the side of caution.

I had mine for 6 months and covered 10,000 miles without issue.
I have two at work and they are very good if you use them for their intended use.

If you wanted to play devils advocate you could equally say the GT-R is a complete waste of time because it can't suit a family of five.

Horses for courses.
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Old 9th May 2014, 10:28 AM   #4 (permalink)
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They said it's range was 100 miles, but if I used the heater for example it would be less, so it was cutting it fine. I asked if they could not give me a charger so I could charge it up at home and then it would be fine, but again, no, that was not possible.

They gave me a Note which I drove very sedately home.

When I do drive into my office, it's 40 miles one way. I don't regard that as a overly long commute but even that drive would be out of the question.
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Old 9th May 2014, 10:32 AM   #5 (permalink)
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My commute is 42 miles each way.
It's not out of the question, they just didn't want to take a chance as if you drive like a berk (they are speed limited to 99mph) you can get the range down to 50.
But drive carefully and it's 100.

I bought mine in Devon and drove it 270 miles home, via free charging at motorway services.

They do work, but you need to know what you are doing and pre-plan your journeys.
It's a different way of driving.
But as a non-EV driver people can't get thier head around this.

Is it a normal car, no = must be crap then.

The Gen2 LEAF has a much better heater and using it uses about 5% of range tops.


When you say it's useless, you mean for you.
That doesn't mean an EV is useless.

A GT-R is useless for my wife.
Does that mean GT-Rs are useless?
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Old 9th May 2014, 10:39 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I suppose for someone like my old dear it would be ideal. In fact, she's just got a new car and was looking at an electric car. But when she found out you have to rent the battery she knocked the idea on the head. And that's another flaw, £40 - £80 a month for the battery. But I don't think Nissan do that for the Leaf.
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Old 9th May 2014, 10:44 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I suppose for someone like my old dear it would be ideal. In fact, she's just got a new car and was looking at an electric car. But when she found out you have to rent the battery she knocked the idea on the head. And that's another flaw, £40 - £80 a month for the battery. But I don't think Nissan do that for the Leaf.
You don't have to rent the battery on the LEAF, you have a choice.

You can either pay £5,000 more for the car and buy it outright or you can pay less for the car and have a monthly battery rental.

If you buy the battery it has a 5 year/60,000 mile warranty.
If you rent the battery it has a warranty for the life of the car, as long as you keep paying a monthly fee based on your milage.
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Old 9th May 2014, 10:46 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Over 6 months of commuting which came to 10,000 miles I suffered no battery capacity loss at all.

And it cost me less than £100 in electric to cover those 10,000 miles.
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Old 9th May 2014, 10:56 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Over 6 months of commuting which came to 10,000 miles I suffered no battery capacity loss at all.

And it cost me less than £100 in electric to cover those 10,000 miles.
Very cost effective. It's a great concept for normal commuter use. If they manage to make it as easy to live with as petrol engined cars are, its a no brainer for the future.
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Old 9th May 2014, 11:05 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Very cost effective. It's a great concept for normal commuter use. If they manage to make it as easy to live with as petrol engined cars are, its a no brainer for the future.
Great, until you figure in the £8,000 depreciation drop.
Fortunately as a business vehicle you can write 100% of the value off in year one in your accounts.

Buying used is the key with EV's (IMO) as the tech will move much faster than in petrol cars, for private buyers.
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Old 9th May 2014, 11:28 AM   #11 (permalink)
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If you wanted to play devils advocate you could equally say the GT-R is a complete waste of time because it can't suit a family of five.
It has a boot large enough for somebody around 6 foot tall to fit in problem solved the GTR is no longer a waste of time 2+2+1 seating arrangement
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Old 9th May 2014, 11:48 AM   #12 (permalink)
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My commute is 42 miles each way.
It's not out of the question, they just didn't want to take a chance as if you drive like a berk (they are speed limited to 99mph) you can get the range down to 50.
But drive carefully and it's 100.

I bought mine in Devon and drove it 270 miles home, via free charging at motorway services.

They do work, but you need to know what you are doing and pre-plan your journeys.
It's a different way of driving.
But as a non-EV driver people can't get thier head around this.

Is it a normal car, no = must be crap then.

The Gen2 LEAF has a much better heater and using it uses about 5% of range tops.


When you say it's useless, you mean for you.
That doesn't mean an EV is useless.

A GT-R is useless for my wife.
Does that mean GT-Rs are useless?
Bet that took you all day with the amount of charging you had to do at each services, really makes sense to have a Green Car....NOT!

Bobby
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Old 9th May 2014, 12:00 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Bet that took you all day with the amount of charging you had to do at each services, really makes sense to have a Green Car....NOT!

Bobby
Took me an hour and a half more than if I had a petrol car.
Drive cost £0 due to free charging. Well worth that for a large percentage of the public who earn less than £25 per hour and would have had to pay for fuel.

Another open mind.

Didn't claim it was green!
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Old 9th May 2014, 12:13 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I read the other day it costs about £2 for fully charge your battery at home (and then there's the free charging points etc).

But, what do you think will happen if electric cars become mainstream ? That will mean a huge loss of revenue in petrol/car tax. What will happen will be the introduction of a battery tax, it's bound to happen.
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Old 9th May 2014, 12:20 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I read the other day it costs about £2 for fully charge your battery at home (and then there's the free charging points etc).

But, what do you think will happen if electric cars become mainstream ? That will mean a huge loss of revenue in petrol/car tax. What will happen will be the introduction of a battery tax, it's bound to happen.
Well, that is true.
But that's the same of any vehicle used for transportation, be it petrol, electric or hydrogen.
If it's mainstream it needs to be taxable to keep the country running.

I don't see how that's avoidable if they become very popular, but by then petrol might be £10+ per gallon.

No way of knowing exactly what will happen.
That's why I tried an EV when they are new and are being pushed with a lot of tax advantages.

I used to charge mine from my solar panels at the weekend and with free workplace charging during the week.
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Old 9th May 2014, 03:14 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Electric cars (so far) are best used as city runarounds.

But the best use of an electric battery is to feed a V8 via a KERS/ERS system!
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Old 9th May 2014, 05:01 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I had the opportunity to borrow a prototype bmw mini electric car two years ago. It was 2 seat and had 200hp and was quite a bit of fun.

I think electric cars have a place, as do hybrids. They might not be as refined or as good as people would like but it's all about the development of these products and people supporting them in the early stages.

I pity the imbeciles who say it's flawed and rubbish because they didnt get on with it, or they needed to drive a long long distance, as it just shows how mechanically naive they are (or maybe simple minded)

The same could be said for Diesel engines 15 years ago. They were terrible in cars. Especially the non turbo models. Then Peugeot had the 306 DTurbo and VAG followed up with a multitude of decent diesel lumps and started bringing out good models. I would also say that for general cars, Diesel seems to be the preferred choice.

In terms of electric (and hybrid) cars, sure they arent as good as I hope they will be in 10 years, but you can see a number of hypercars coming out with this tech, plus F1 developments and I think energy/electrical storage and motor technology will move on yet again.
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Old 9th May 2014, 09:21 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Here is the killer statistic that will ensure the demise of the internal combustion engine...
Of the power produced by an internal combustion engine, only 30% is actually converted into forward motion, due to friction, drivetrain and other internal losses.
Diesel is better but not by much.
An electric motor is 90 to 95% efficient and the advance of battery technology will soon negate the range issues....when I read this I realised what an overweight and inefficient lump of metal and oil we all carry around under the bonnet!
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Old 9th May 2014, 09:27 PM   #19 (permalink)
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You should all acquaint yourselves with the tesla model s. It has a 310 mile range, will recharge to 70% for free in 30 mins at a supercharger station that they are building all over the country. Seats five with luggage in extreme comfort does 0-62 in 4.3 seconds and is a pleasure to drive on one pedal.

You can have a high current charger installed in your house that will recharge it fully in six hours for £4.

If they made a little prettier convertible version I'd have one in my drive already. The driving experience is entirely new. If you think gt-rs are fast off the lights these will blow your mind. It's not a throttle it's a lag less on/off switch.
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Old 9th May 2014, 09:52 PM   #20 (permalink)
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No noise, no smell (fuel).

2 of the biggest reasons people love performance cars, V8 muscle cars ect.
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