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View Poll Results: F Con Pro v Apexi PFC
My car is mapped with F Con Pro 131 26.73%
My car is mapped with Power FC 218 44.49%
My car is mapped with Power FC Pro 40 8.16%
Stock ECU 109 22.24%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 490. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 26th May 2005, 11:15 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Question F Con Pro v Apexi FC Grudge Match...

What are the benefits of going to F Con Pro over PFC, assuming Z32 AFM's are fitted and 600bhp would be max expectations....

Removal of the AFM's I can appreciate the *limitations but if you are not going to exceed the 700bhp max why is the F Con better?

Oh yea... interestng to hear good and bad stories re these.. no bun fights tho pleeze

Also please add any other solutions other than these, interested to hear other options.

Thrown in a poll to see what everyones got..
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Old 26th May 2005, 11:45 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Can't really comment on your questions except to say that the Power FC unit is way better than the Standard ECU when running higher boost levels. It also makes the engine feel much more in-tune if that makes any sense.
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Old 26th May 2005, 12:17 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I agree, I have a Power FC but have been advised to consider the FCon option. Just interested in the differences and indeed who has which system
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Old 26th May 2005, 12:31 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Power FC everyday as you can map it yourself.

Me - I've just sold my Power FC - I'm after the AEM EMS as the replacement.

Knock control, antilag, 2 step, closed loop wideband lambda, software included.

Exactly what I'm looking for.
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Old 26th May 2005, 03:54 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I will be having power fc on my girl and i think there are two main differences tho i dont fully understand the system this is what i have found on other threads

The power fc needs AFM,s and the hks fcon does not!
The power fc has larger increments of map stages than the hksfcon

I think overall the hks fcon is a more accurate tuning ecu but really only shows its prowess when on a high HP car
No doubt i will be corrected if my assumptions are incorrect

Oh and there are only a few people "allowed/capable" to map the hks


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Old 26th May 2005, 04:45 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I got the same impression. So F Con *is better but perhaps the PFC is the VHS of the Betamax.... lol
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Old 26th May 2005, 05:00 PM   #7 (permalink)
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For the DIY people, it can only be the PFC. Outdated now but really easy to use and shows good results.
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Old 26th May 2005, 08:20 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Power fc is also available in "D jetro" version which needs no air flow meters and is supplied with map sensors
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Old 27th May 2005, 12:52 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I am semi tempted to have a powerfc fitted (not d jetro) just to manage my stage one car.

I have seen some good gains just from the addition of a pfc and some good mapping.

Anyone know the difference between normal pfc and pfc pro?
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Old 27th May 2005, 01:13 PM   #10 (permalink)
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The Pro has crude anti-lag and a ignition cut rev limiter I think..
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Old 27th May 2005, 01:31 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Dont you will just make Steven apoplectic
Its not anti-lag its a crude launch control, well it gives a set-able static rev limit for consistent launches.
And the rev limiter cutting the spark and not the fuel is why I went Pro.
I like my engine
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Old 27th May 2005, 01:53 PM   #12 (permalink)
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PowerFC for me
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Old 27th May 2005, 02:37 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cokey
Dont you will just make Steven apoplectic
Its not anti-lag its a crude launch control, well it gives a set-able static rev limit for consistent launches.
And the rev limiter cutting the spark and not the fuel is why I went Pro.
I like my engine
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Old 27th May 2005, 02:51 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Is there a big price difference between the normal pfc and the pro. being able to apply full throttle on the line and thus build boost whilst stationary (without destroying the clutch anyway) is something that I greatly desire - plus spark not fuel cut is good for the engine and big flames I guess....

Is there a price difference or anything extra required when fitting and mapping?

is the lower rev limit (assuming it is a 2 stage system) adjustable and operated via a switch in the cabin?
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Old 27th May 2005, 06:36 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I got pfc pro, the features ppl have said are true (ign cut & 2-stage rev limit). u can also do (very!) crude anti-lag with data-logit. The PFC pro aint much more than std one ~10%, there's no D-Jetro on PFC pro though.

As in the original post if you ain't going near 600bhp then it seemed pointless to me.

I'm not sure if this is true but when I got my car mapped they said that they could probally get another 30bhp with V-Pro over PFC, Kingsley's data kinda backs this up.
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Old 28th May 2005, 01:00 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Theres more accurate mapping on the F-Con IIRC as it's a 32x32 grid instead of the PFC's 20x20.
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Old 29th May 2005, 04:31 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I have the F Con V Pro, car came with PFC but it was a very early model and not as easily mappable (could only be mapped by the hand controller and not done by laptop) and it also caused the det light to come on, on quite a few occaisions. I also had AFM trouble when I got the car so that got me thinking about ditching them as they are not that cheap (new) and if I got 2nd hand ones then they could just as easily go wrong.
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Old 29th May 2005, 09:50 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Mine has the Power FC but I'll be ditching this later in the year for the new AEM system which is light years ahead in terms of what it offers.

That said the PFC is excellent value for money and can be adjusted with the hand controller. It retains good driveability and for 500bhp cars is probably fairly ideal. It doesn't feel rough like some competition based ECU's and retains a stock feel.

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Old 11th June 2005, 02:37 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Here is a piece I wrote for a forum I used to visit, I was told was too bias, but hopefully you can draw your own conclusions. This is by no means an expert's opinion, I may have grasped the wrong end of the stick with a few bits, but here's some info to read:

Intro
I have decided to write this article as an introduction into the comparisons between
two well known aftermarket engine management systems. I have decided to do this
to educate a few people, offer an opportuinity for comparisons to be sought, and decisions
to be made, particularly helpful to members of the forum who own modified Japanese sports cars.

The two different ECUs that I would like to compare are 2 of the most popular aftermarket ECU's
for modified Japanese Sports Cars.

HKS F-Con V Pro

&

Apexi Power FC

The necessity for optimum control over a vehicle's engine is heightened as
a car's engine is modified and transformed beyond intentions and parameters set by manufacturers
and controlled by the stock Engine Control Unit. At clubman levels, where the investments into engine
modification and aftermarket upgraded engine components are high, the particular need for
precise control is paramount into both longetivity of the engine, and ability for the user to
gain full advantage of the investment he/she has made.
The requirements of an aftermarket ECU are that it must enable the user to adjust and alter the fuelling of the engine,
the ignition timing of the engine, control over auxiliary engine functions, to record and monitor the engine's activity,
to enable interaction between the user and the ECU, and incorporate safety systems and fail safes to ensure against
engine damage.

The following is a comparative analysis of each of the aftermarket ECUs I have chosen to study.

ECM Type
(A description)

HKS F-Con V Pro:

A fully featured stand alone engine management system incorporating a "piggy-back" fuel computer interface.

- Utilises Factory ECU

Apexi Power FC:

A complete stand alone total engine management system

- Replaces Factory ECU

Resolution of Adjustability
(What levels can user adjust main fuel/ignition points to)

HKS F-Con V Pro:

32x32 Fuelling & Ignition Point Adjustment
User defined selection range

Apexi Power FC:

20x20 Fuelling & Ignition Point Adjustment
5x5 map sections

Ability to control drive by wire?

HKS F-Con V Pro : Yes

Apexi Power FC: No

Engine Monitoring System
(What can the ECM monitor?)

HKS F-Con V Pro.

- Complete total engine monitoring via software

- Parameter Limts / Warning Functions user defined for any variable.

- Datalogging Function enables user to record and re-run data accumulated through all of car's sensors over defined period of time.

Apexi Power FC.

- 10 monitored parameters displayed via commander
- Engine RPM
- Ignition Timing
- Vehicle Speed
- Air Flow Voltage (Pressure Sensor Voltage)
- Injector Duty Cycle
- Boost
- Knocking Level
- Battery Voltage
- Intake Air Temp
- Water Temp


Functions

HKS F-Con V Pro.

- Total Control over Car's Electronic Systems.

- Main Functions include:

- Ability to store 4 different fuel/ignition/boost maps
- Fuelling Mapping
- Ignition Mapping
- Boost Mapping
- Injection Format
- Additional Injector Control
- Nitrous Oxide Injection Control
- Launch Control
- Multiple User Defined Rev Limits
- User defined activation levels via pressure, speed, revs, temperature
- Acceleration Enrichment Correction
- Cranking Fuel Injection Control
- Water temp / fuel injection control
- Anti-Lag Control
- Leading & Trailing Ignition Control
- Water Injection Control
- Boost Ramp Control
- Auto A/F Ratio Compensator


Apexi Power FC

- Fuelling Mapping
- Ignition Mapping
- Boost Mapping (with seperate boost control unit)
- user Defined Rev Limit
- Acceleration Enrichment Correction
- Cranking Fuel Injection Control
- Water temp / fuel injection control
- VTEC Control (on Honda Vehicles only)
- Leading & Trailing Ignition Control (on some vehicles only)

Injection Format?
(How can the ECM Control different injection formats?)

HKS F-Con V Pro.

- Batch, Sequential or Staged

Apexi Power FC

- Sequential Only.

Datalogging Function?

HKS F-Con V Pro.
- Yes

Apexi Power FC.
- No

User Interface
(How does the user access the ECM?)

HKS F-Con V Pro:
Through Software

Apexi Power FC:
Through Commander

Safety?
(How does ECM ensure engine safety and longetivity)

HKS F-Con V Pro
- Auto A/F Ratio Compensator
F-Con will calibrate entire engine mapping to suit user defined correct A/f Ratio, and will never let
engine run detrimentally lean (e.g in a case of a blocked injector)

- Warning Levels pre defined by user

- Limp Mode Activation pre defined by user

- Cut Off Activation of any ECU controlled electrical system, defined by user

- Use of aftermarket sensors to ensure more accurate readings.

- Datalogging.

- Active Parameter Display, Warning, Peak and Hold and Recording via software

Apexi Power FC

- Peak and Hold Function via Commander

- Warning Level Activation via C.E.L

Market Price in Japan

HKS F-Con V Pro : ~130,000 Yen = ~?650

Apexi Power FC : ~80,000 Yen = ~?400


Conclusion.

If you consider the requirements for an aftermarket ECM, as described in the section identifying
the aim and its role within the car, it must be decided how closely the functions offered by the
ECM meet the requirements. Levels of Engine adjustability, Levels of Car Electronic Systems Control, Safety Measures
and base functions are all to be considered in a solution to the need for total engine and electrics management, and in thus,
the superiority of the HKS F-Con V Pro ECM is clearly indicated. The F-Con's major disadvantage to the Apexi Power FC is limited to
its interface to the user, in that the interface requirements of the F-Con are a computer and computer based software which although portable to an extent,
does not meet the interface simplicity of the Apexi Power FC's handy, In-car
control device named " the Commander ".

The Ultimate System?
Neither!

For market leading Aftermarket Engine Management Systems, offering the greatest degree of engine and electronics
control, leading-edge technology and design quality, neither system is able to match the Engine Management Systems offered
by Motec. The M400,M600 or M800 currently offer the greatest levels of control and adjustment available to any
electronic management system currently on the market, and represents the pinnacle of aftermarket EMS.
Interface remains as in the case of the HKS F-Con, in that the Motec EMS is configured via a computer interface.


Hope you enjoyed reading!
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Old 14th June 2005, 10:38 PM   #20 (permalink)
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It's a pretty good piece Laurence but it suggests that the PFC and F-Con V-Pro are much closer in cost than they are in reality. I think your cost above does not include the loom, plus the mapping is more expensive for the F-Con. You can get a PFC fitted and mapped for £1000 in the UK, your looking at alot more than that for the F-Con, plus not many places can map it.
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