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Old 3rd July 2005, 10:09 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Unhappy Burnt/damaged spark plug.....

I wonder if anyone can help me here.

My No.6 spark plug is damaged - the outer electrode is missing about 2-3mm from the end and looks burnt. The inner electrode and core seems undamaged.

Something happened during the last session at Brands the other day - boost came on then 'hesitated' and would not achieve full boost, oil temp shot up to 120 (110 max throughout the day), ended up with engine sounding like it was misfiring.
The plugs were Racing 8's but I've since changed them back to Trust No.8's. Unfortunately it's still running like a pig

I'll be discussing this with Abbey, but does anybody on here have any ideas?

I can't seem to find any other problems - it's used no oil, coolant is fine, engine sounds ok (although erratic running), oil pressure normal and not overheating when not on boost (haven't used boost since stopping at Brands). No fluid leaks visible, all of the other plugs look ok, perhaps the centre cores look a bit white, not sure.

Any input would be much appreciated.

Thanks, Ken
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Old 4th July 2005, 11:03 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Borescope it, probably piston damage too, sounds like det set in...
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Old 4th July 2005, 11:14 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Sounds like it, number 6 will suffer the most from heat as its the furthest from the water pump too.
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Old 4th July 2005, 11:17 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Sorry to hear this Ken, that is if there is any damage... Which plugs are they, HKS/Denso?
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Old 4th July 2005, 11:47 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Plugs were NGK Racing 8's. To my untrained eye, the cores look a bit white but only No.6 is damaged. I put an old set in to try it and it's still rough

I could see a bit of the piston through the top which looked ok, but I suppose damage would start from the edges. Anyway, it's a trailer-job for the moment so we'll see.

All indications seem to point to overheating (fueling perhaps?) and presumably pre-ignition in No.6, although not sure why inner electrode would survive - maybe that's a good sign
Up to the experts now, fingers crossed it's not too bad

Cheers,

Ken
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Old 4th July 2005, 05:13 PM   #6 (permalink)
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If the earth electrode is gone, it might have damaged a valve on its way out.... could also have damaged the exhaust wheel on the turbo.....

I've had a GTS-t in the workshop that snapped the earth electrode off No 6 and tried to pass it through the turbo (shattered the wheel)

Hope this helps, and hope there is no damage
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Old 4th July 2005, 10:28 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snathe
If the earth electrode is gone, it might have damaged a valve on its way out.... could also have damaged the exhaust wheel on the turbo.....

I've had a GTS-t in the workshop that snapped the earth electrode off No 6 and tried to pass it through the turbo (shattered the wheel)

Hope this helps, and hope there is no damage
Don't know if the end of the electrode broke off or burnt but the valve bit is interesting - might explain why it's still rough with new plugs in. Hope you're not right about the turbo

Thanks for the comments - it's off to meet it's tuner so have to wait and see....

Regards,

Ken
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Old 8th July 2005, 05:05 AM   #8 (permalink)
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#6 is the lean hole. Its the first to break.

If you have a Power FC - add some more fuel to #6. Run a cooler plug - 7436-9 7436-10 for track use.
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Old 8th July 2005, 05:57 AM   #9 (permalink)
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If its still running rough after changing plugs - could be a hurt coil. Might be a holed piston. You might want to pull the valve cover crossover breather while its running. See if its puffing smoke.

I broke the top ring land out of #6 cylinder and still was able to drive the car 400 miles home. Still pulled great, just showed some knock...
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Old 8th July 2005, 12:42 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Thanks for the advice Sean.
Engine will be taken out for a close inspection - not worth taking the risk otherwise.
I have limited knowledge but the more I think about this, the more I worry about turbo damage, you know - bits breaking off, boost affected, high oil temp etc.
But maybe the root cause was fueling, I guess we'll see.

Has anybody else had any experience of Racing 8 plugs? I used Trust 8's in the engine prior to upgrades but in theory the NGK's should be more suited to the higher engine output.

The car was fine at Spa in May, and was spot on for the whole day at Brands before the last session, so maybe something just broke

Ken
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Old 8th July 2005, 03:41 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Hi Ken,
Just bought a set of Trust/GReddy racing 8's (R6701-8).
When I opened them up, they are actually NGK Racing 8's.
Got these in my engine at the mo and still no problem after 4 track days.
Been keeping an eye on the EGT gauge whilst on track and it never went
above 950.
Have you got an EGT gauge fitted? I find it very useful for obvious reason.
Fingers crossed. Hope I don't speak too soon.
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Old 8th July 2005, 03:56 PM   #12 (permalink)
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No plug will be able to resist a lot of det So it isn't a plug failure as such.
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Old 8th July 2005, 04:18 PM   #13 (permalink)
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The Greddys are NGK's. I would say not a plug issue, but a motor/fueling issue.

1) Spark Plugs . Recommended stocks are PFR6A-11 . One heat range cooler is a PFR7A-11. You may want to tighen the plug gap up if you are going to up the boost. Stock gaps on these plugs are 1.1mm which is pretty wide for a spark plug. Iridiums work well. They are expensive but they work well. We have had a problem with the Denso iridium plugs breaking the ceramic around the electrode. With the NGK's we havent had a problem. We used to run #8 plugs in our drag car. Now we are running #9's . 7238 is the recommended Japanese plug, but not available in the US. The closest equivalent is the 7116. Stock number 2846 for the #9. R7238-9 stock number 4370. Obsolete plug replaced by R7436-9 part # 4899 - $38.81 each R7436-10 Part # 4900
7436 - racing plug, 14mm, 3/4" reach, 5/8" hex, gasket seat, resistor, ultra-fine wire iridium center electrode, fine wire platinum ground electrode

Fine wire racing plugs are designed to give you a stronger spark from your existing ignition system. Recessed fine wire platinum center electrode requires less voltage to ionize(jump) the plug gap. This allows a stronger spark which will better ignite the air fuel mixture leading to more power. The platinum center and ground electrodes for increased durability. Fine wire platinum ground electrode to reduce quenching. Hand made in Japan and constructed to withstand the most extreme racing environments.





7116 - racing plug, 14mm, 3/4" reach, 5/8" hex, gasket seat, non resistor, ISO length, fine wire platinum tip center electrode, fine wire platinum ground electrode,

Fine wire racing plugs are designed to give you a stronger spark from your existing ignition system. Fine wire platinum center electrode requires less voltage to ionize(jump) the plug gap. This allows a stronger spark which will better ignite the air fuel mixture leading to more power. The platinum center and ground electrodes for increased durability. Fine wire platinum ground electrode to reduce quenching. Slight recess plug. Hand made in Japan and constructed to withstand the most extreme racing environments.

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Old 8th July 2005, 05:18 PM   #14 (permalink)
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NGK - they seem to own them all!

James, no haven't got EGT readout, perhaps better consider this.

Sean, great info mate, thanks.

Ken
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Old 10th July 2005, 11:47 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabberwock
I wonder if anyone can help me here.

My No.6 spark plug is damaged - the outer electrode is missing about 2-3mm from the end and looks burnt. The inner electrode and core seems undamaged.

Something happened during the last session at Brands the other day - boost came on then 'hesitated' and would not achieve full boost, oil temp shot up to 120 (110 max throughout the day), ended up with engine sounding like it was misfiring.
The plugs were Racing 8's but I've since changed them back to Trust No.8's. Unfortunately it's still running like a pig

I'll be discussing this with Abbey, but does anybody on here have any ideas?

I can't seem to find any other problems - it's used no oil, coolant is fine, engine sounds ok (although erratic running), oil pressure normal and not overheating when not on boost (haven't used boost since stopping at Brands). No fluid leaks visible, all of the other plugs look ok, perhaps the centre cores look a bit white, not sure.

Any input would be much appreciated.

Thanks, Ken
Shit! i thought i was reading one of my own posts from a few weeks ago...

see these threads..

https://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/upload/sh...ad.php?t=38577

https://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/upload/sh...=hks+electrode






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Old 11th July 2005, 06:53 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Shit! i thought i was reading one of my own posts from a few weeks ago...
The HKS/ Denso plugs are crap. I wouldnt use them in an engine of someone I didnt like. I have seen too many of them break now. Way too many

This failure was a Greddy plug, probably just too lean and broke a ring land out of #6.
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Old 11th July 2005, 09:47 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Yep the Denso iridiums seem to fail a great deal more easily - SARD/HKS are just rebranded Denso's as states in that previous thread. I think the NGK jobbies are a bit more resistant to serious det, but obviously can't take it persistently.

Jon
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Old 11th July 2005, 11:36 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Funny thing with mine was that the core nose (ceramic) looks undamaged. In all previous examples of pre-ignition that I've seen (not many ) both electrodes have been damaged.
So hopefully no ceramic bits got in there.......still waiting to find out. Engine out, head off next.
Maybe it just blew a gasket, here's hoping.......

Keep smiling

Ken
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Old 11th July 2005, 12:44 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Ken, I have NGK R7436-8 and R7436-9 for the Garage Bomber, Sean, these came from USA!

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Old 11th July 2005, 10:36 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Dave, from memory mine were R7435-8.
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