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Old 1st May 2016, 08:57 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Stagea Engine Conversion

I have a future project in mind that im very seriously looking into,

Now 99% of you will tune round and say this is a stupid idea but please look at it from my point of view.

Im hoping to convert a RS4 Stagea to Diesel Turbo,

Now this is where i know your asking WHY???
Yes i know it will be slower,

I travel 700+ks a week for work and get Diesel fuel for free,
I have a Nissan Avenir SW11 Diesel Turbo and its a great car but getting up over 300,000ks now and i want something a little better for towing the boat but something im happy to drive every day.
Im not out to win any races,
Before anyone asks the RD28T was in the Nissan Patrol/Safari and that is 300kgs heavier than a staega,

Now i under stand the requirements of an adapter plate and pickup. (think same thing as a RB30 GTR conversion)
So im certain i can get it in there and running,

The area im a little unsure of is the wiring, How much input from the engine ECU is required to make the Attessa AWD system work???
I believe it may need a signal from the throttle position sensor, Which i guess i could fab one onto the injector pump to get a sensor feed setup from that.

Is there anyone on here that knows how all the wiring etc for this system works that i could bounce some ideas off, (someone with an open mind who doesn't just think that the only way to modify a car is to make it faster).
Or someone who has some detailed wiring diagrams of the system that would be great,
I would in parts at a Auto Electrical work shop so have a reasonable idea how wiring works and have sparkys to bounce ideas off and help me out,

I really want to try make this work on the AWD platform as i think with the amount of ks i do and pulling the boat up wet boat ramps the AWD will be very handy,

If it becomes seemly impossible then i guess that a 2WD platform could be used which will still give me the large diesel wagon im after.
We get alot of 2WD Stages here in NZ, So finding one is easy.
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Old 1st May 2016, 09:11 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Does your diesel engine use a throttle cable?
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Old 1st May 2016, 09:14 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I believe so as its its just a conventional injector pump.
I haven't picked it up from the wrecker yet,
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Old 1st May 2016, 09:29 AM   #4 (permalink)
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If you could some how utilise the TPS off the Stagea, that would go just to the ATTESA.
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Old 1st May 2016, 04:56 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Interesting idea - there was a diesel Stagea online in the UK just last week.
Keep us posted how you get on (was 2wd here as an FYI).


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Old 1st May 2016, 06:20 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Yea there was i talked to him,
He used a non turbo LD28 engine so older tech than the RD28,
He said car went ok just a bit gutless, (a turbo would have helped that).
The obviously reason for going with the newer RD series engine is mounting to the existing gearbox engine mounts etc,

The problem i see with using the original TPS is that it will plug into the engine loom, Of which that loom won't actually be plugging into much of an enigine,

It is possible i leave the entire RB25 loom and ECU in there any adapt the TPS over to it etc, But things like crank angle sensor so ECU actually knows its running may also be an issue.

Needing some wiring diagrams for the attessa system to see where it gets all its info from so i can try feed directly into that,

I may even be wrong about the TPS of all the places i heard that info it was on Mighty Car Mods,

Brett
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Old 1st May 2016, 06:55 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I think that the full race attesa box allows you to junk the entire oem attesa gubbins which might be an easier option for you
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Old 1st May 2016, 08:43 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Interesting but sounds very expensive,
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Old 1st May 2016, 10:40 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Maaaaaaate.
The Rd28 is an ancient design 2-valve per cylinder job.
It's pre-combustion chamber head is not cross flow so the left side is a nightmare of feeble manifold studs.
Single overhead cam with a cam pulley that will shear off. (It's not the same idea as the Rb)
If you get an early (Gq Patrol) engine it will be mechanical pump (cable accel) and she'll have hydraulic lash adjusters.
The next model pump (Gu Patrol) is electronic, all fly by wire and the cam runs solid lash adjusters.
Cooling would be a big issue, they need a decent radiator.
The Gu turbo is really tiny and has an odd 3-bolt flange which means if you want to upgrade you have to source an Gq exhaust manifold as they used a conventional T??? flange.
The Gu's turbo oil/water feeds are really tricky, they use the same connection so if your gasket leaks it will pump oil straight into the coolant.
Like I said that side of the engine is awful.
Gu had a dual mass flywheel, Gq solid. This gets messy when swapping boxes as the Gu then had a longer bell housing to accommodate the thicker flywheel.
Block has the Nissan crank girdle and the bores have piston squirters.
Apart from that, the rest looks like an Rb.
I didn't think they were much heavier than an Rb but then I haven't weighed one.
Amazingly they love to rev, had my son's Gu at 5000 when overtaking a line of cars and it was as sweet as.
To get one to go they need some boost, exhaust and an el-cheapo chip. Then they will surprise.
But with today's common rail Cummins, Chev etc, the Rd28 isn't my choice.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg broken cam drive.jpg (415.0 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1761.jpg (93.2 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1771.jpg (97.2 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg stupid turbo oil feed.jpg (322.2 KB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg turbo 1.jpg (172.1 KB, 6 views)
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Old 2nd May 2016, 01:45 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Cheers for the photos,
I know there are pit falls with the RD28 but none of the above engines you have mention will easily bolt up, We know them here as Y60 and Y61 the engine i have is the T2 flanges turbo model. I would rather a mechanical pump rather than electronic,

The extra weight etc doesn't worry me, My SW11 has a CD20ET in it with alot less torque than a RD28T etc, If it can be a similar car to drive as that i'll be happy,
Its the weight of the car which will make it nicer to drive on our roads and to tow with,


Thats interesting about the cam pulley never seen any information about that happening,
Im pretty sure i can fit a large enough radiator and oil cooler to keep it cool,
I work in automotive parts so can access that stuff easily,

Sounds like you know your RD28s though,
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Old 2nd May 2016, 01:45 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Hoping to stay auto.
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Old 2nd May 2016, 03:36 AM   #12 (permalink)
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The Gq engine has some advantages but the Gu's electronic pump makes power upgrade a lot easier.
A cheap chip is about $200, can't upgrade the mechanical pump for anything close to that, you're talking thousands.
Cam pulley damage is due to the noise of the diesel, you can't hear an overtightened cam belt. These things don't bust tensioner or idler, they overload the front cam bearing and next thing the cam wheel has sheared off.
Don't fit any kevlar type belts and you'll be OK.
I think you'll have to find some taller diff ratios, might pay to check what the R33 Rd28 taxi diff ratio was. Must have been taller than 4.1

Yes I understand you couldn't shoe horn in a Duramax etc.
Such a shame Nissan didn't continue with the basic Rd28 block but with a modern twin cam and common rail head.
Instead they fitted the horrible Zd range from Renault.
Now they've buried their heads even further with the big petrol V8 and the V6 diesel.
Meanwhile 4.2 Toyota owners won't ever sell their vehicles, a brilliant engine with thanks to Yanmar.
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Old 2nd May 2016, 05:17 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Yea i'll be doing the timing with genuine OEM parts i have a friend who by pass's Nissan NZ and deals direct with Nissan Japan saveings are huge.

If the later pump is able to be adapted over i could consider this later on, But for now i think 3" exhaust possible uprated turbo or a little more boost and an intercooler should help alot,
Big Radiator and oil and trans coolers should keep it cool.
Remembering that a Stagea is approx 300ks lighter than a GU Patrol.

The Taller diffs would be great i think the 4.08 from the basic stagea will be ok, But not 100% ideal the R34 GTR diffs would be best but i assume people arnt giving them away.

How many RPM does the stagea do at 100km/h????
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Old 2nd May 2016, 10:46 AM   #14 (permalink)
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You wouldn't retrofit an electronic pump to a mechanical pump engine, the sheer number of sensors is staggering.
Different squirters too with a needle lift sensor built into No1 injector.
Mad engine.
If you get on to the Patrol forum, you'll find heaps of blokes who love their mechanical pump engines making good power.
It's just the cost of upgrading a mechanical pump is so much greater than adding an el-cheapo chip.
They also tend to be smokers while the turbo catches up, the electronic control is just far more sophisticated.
No matter what year engine you get, an EGR blocking plate is No1 mod.
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Old 2nd May 2016, 06:10 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Cool thanks for that, We didn't actually get a lot of RD28t over here let alone RD28ETs there is a lot of NA RD28s from laurels etc but i wanted to start with something factory turbo.
Deleting the EGR would be the first thing i did, Followed by a decent catch can,
The engine i have brought has a genuine 100,000ks on it came out of a accident damaged patrol owned by an old couple, Truck was MINT before getting smashed in the side, So i'll do timing and water pump and EGR delete before i put it in the whole,

2WD setup would be so much easier/cheaper for so many reasons main one being that i can swap ratios to something taller so much easier, And no sump plate,
Hoping that maybe slightly taller tyres than stock will help to,

But it won't be as good in the long run so i think the AWD route is worth exploring alot further.
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Old 2nd May 2016, 10:25 PM   #16 (permalink)
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You'll notice pretty quickly that the tin sump on a Patrol is extended so RWD may not be an option.
I guess you could fit the adaptor plate and alloy AWD sump then worry about wiring etc further down the road.
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Old 2nd May 2016, 10:50 PM   #17 (permalink)
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AWD stageas are so much better to drive it but if you want/need to go rwd you can get rwd stageas too.

in that case they would be a much better bet as all the awd stuff isnt there
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Old 3rd May 2016, 03:54 AM   #18 (permalink)
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I more ment that it would be easier to do a RWD stagea due to not having the electrics of the AWD system and that diff ratios are more readily available,
I would assume (no research done here) that a 2WD RB sump could be swapped over onto the RD28 block.

AWD setup would would be far far better,

Yea getting the engine in the whole would be stage one, Then firing it up with front shaft removed to get it moving under its own power, After that would be the final finishing touches.

Ive paid for it now but won't be able to pick it up for a few weeks.

Brett
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Old 3rd May 2016, 05:51 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I've never checked the tin sump bolt pattern against a 30 etc.
The 28's use a leaky sump gasket whereas the Rb's use 3-bond.
Rb's stay dry.
If you fit an adaptor plate I guess it would be all 3-bond? Ask RIPS.
You'd be advised to download the Patrol workshop manual so you're prepared for the weird items you'll need from the wreck, to get it going.
e.g. These things have glow plugs, won't start without them.
The ecu gives power to the glows when you move the IGN to "ON" for about 20 seconds.
Warning light will go out and she's ready to start.
Once the ecu detects engine start the glows move to lower voltage "afterglow" setting and continue until coolant reaches operating temp.
Some Rd's ran 6V glow plugs in 3-batches to 2, others ran straight 12V glows.
Easy to pick from their power rail.
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Old 3rd May 2016, 08:12 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Sweet thanks for the info.
I can fit after market glow plug timer with after glow if needed,
The guy who im getting the engine off is giving me full loom anything connected to the loom eg ECUs etc and anything he can think of that may be of use to me.

Lucky for me i work in auto electrical spare parts so accessing things like glow plugs relays wiring etc is all pretty easy, Plus we have a couple auto sparkies at work (one is very clever) He has no problem with the idea of a TPS sensor adapted to throttle cable wheel for pick up etc.

The RD28 block is ment to pretty much be identical to the RB30 block according to my research.
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