The EU Referendum - Page 22 - GT-R Register - Nissan Skyline and GT-R Drivers Club forum

Want to buy a banner ad? Find out more here.

Go Back   GT-R Register - Nissan Skyline and GT-R Drivers Club forum > General > Non-Skyline / GT-R chat
Register Garage FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Insurance


View Poll Results: Should Britain leave the EU?
Yes 143 69.08%
No 50 24.15%
Not voting 14 6.76%
Voters: 207. You may not vote on this poll

Like Tree564Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 29th June 2016, 01:20 PM   #421 (permalink)
tonigmr2 is Happy to get my R34 back!
GT-RDC Founder Member
 
tonigmr2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Herts
Cars owned: MR2 TC, 981 3.4S, Disco5, R34 & R35
Posts: 15,450
Can't pretend immigration wasn't a factor for a lot of people, it was. Perhaps we should not get Norway or 'Norway +', maybe we should go for 'Canada +', they didn't have to accept free movement for trade. I think politically it's a very difficult thing to sell any free movement to the majority of people who voted out.

I'm not a fan of Corbyn, but he was right on Friday morning when he said the vote was the result of ignoring the impact of immigration on the working man/community. You have to address this not ignore it or just shout 'racist' everytime it is brought up. Let's face it, the middle class do not feel it as much as the group who are on entry level wages. Ask yourselves why communities where immigration is high, such as Boston and Fenland (farming communities) voted out. It wasn't because of high ideals, it was because their perception is they are out-competed for jobs and services. Ignoring that has led to this vote. The 'Remain' argument was too high level and did not address these day to day perceived impacts. All IMHO.
AlexJ, NITO, Mookistar and 2 others like this.
__________________
The future is Gold.

Girls drive GTRs too

Next event is our GT-RDC Silverstone Classics. OMG look at the cars we’ve got coming...from Hako to MY20 Nismo!

Last edited by tonigmr2; 29th June 2016 at 01:23 PM..
tonigmr2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2016, 01:59 PM   #422 (permalink)
Zippee is unaware they can edit their status
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonigmr2 View Post
Can't pretend immigration wasn't a factor for a lot of people, it was. Perhaps we should not get Norway or 'Norway +', maybe we should go for 'Canada +', they didn't have to accept free movement for trade. I think politically it's a very difficult thing to sell any free movement to the majority of people who voted out.

I'm not a fan of Corbyn, but he was right on Friday morning when he said the vote was the result of ignoring the impact of immigration on the working man/community. You have to address this not ignore it or just shout 'racist' everytime it is brought up. Let's face it, the middle class do not feel it as much as the group who are on entry level wages. Ask yourselves why communities where immigration is high, such as Boston and Fenland (farming communities) voted out. It wasn't because of high ideals, it was because their perception is they are out-competed for jobs and services. Ignoring that has led to this vote. The 'Remain' argument was too high level and did not address these day to day perceived impacts. All IMHO.
You can add to that increased NHS waiting times and oversubscribed schools. They were definite vote makers.

Another thing to shout about. How come it isn't against EU protocol for Scotland and Gibraltar to hold unofficial talks before article 50, but it is for UK? Another question I must credit Corbyn with (even though I hate his guts).

I also wonder if it would actually be possible to make UK employers pay an additional tax and national insurance contribution for extremely low income EU workers, to bring their contributions up to the national average, whilst allowing free movement? I guess that would class as a tariff on Labour though. Right now we're subsidising a vast empire of low income employers who are screwing the taxpayer with the knock-on cost of their employment choices.
__________________

Last edited by Zippee; 29th June 2016 at 02:02 PM..
Zippee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2016, 02:07 PM   #423 (permalink)
AlexJ is as AlexJ does
GTR.co.uk seasoned Member
 
AlexJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: West Sussex
Cars owned: BNR32 HCR32
Posts: 2,141
Many high immigration urban areas voted remain I thought. Many of the areas with the highest leave % have seen little immigration.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
AlexJ is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Old 29th June 2016, 02:33 PM   #424 (permalink)
NITO is officially out of the Skyline scene!
Registered
 
NITO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Kent
Cars owned: CLS63S AMG Shooting Brake
Posts: 1,981
Quote:
Originally Posted by terry lloyd View Post

Working in a factory - everyone i have spoke to says they voted out due to immigration - and to be honest it was everyone so i do think Mr C has a point - i did not vote myself as i was concerned about the financial impact of the out vote
Hi Terry,

I can understand that, I've worked 2 years of my life in factories, one year in England and one year in Italy, it's an honest job and there's something very fulfilling in doing an honest days work and seeing the results of it taking shape, I can honestly say it was a happier time for me work wise!

In that environment, and I'm in construction now which is not far removed, one of the most immediate risks/threat to their livelihood is from the influx of cheaper labour, prepared to do more for less and keen to work as many more hours as possible and not necessarily in the same workplace as alternative companies spring up employing largely foreign labour. However that is a very narrow demographic sample as you'd appreciate and opinions can be contagious so I still disagree with Cameron's sweeping statement but it's interesting to me nonetheless to hear that, so thank you for sharing that, the more feedback the better we can understand the needs of the populace. Problem with the OUT decision is that it embodies so many facets of the same choice.

The issue of control of migration is about getting the right migration, the cheap labour end of the scale is pointless (aside from those who would profit from exploitation) if we have our own workforce and youngsters, (who, if put through apprenticeships instead of shoved through further education to keep employment figures looking rosey while amassing student debts) could fill that role. Cheap labour is a drain on the economy as the taxes they would be paying on minimum wage versus the cost of schooling and looking after their families is not proportionate and undermines the living standards, infrastructure and future of British workers. In the factories I worked at, there were upto 3 generations that had worked and indeed a couple of generations concurrently working in them.

It's a shame then that the media and leavers hijack at every opportunity the view that anyone that has an issue with immigration is a racist without appreciating the legitimate concerns. Likewise, Cameron in telling the EU that he lost the referendum because of their view on immigration, is to me a misleading statement because it implies that is the only reason that people have objected to the EU when we know there is far more to it and far more wrong with it. Imho, because he has failed to deliver on his manifesto pledge, this is his scapegoat, he can now blame the EU for the fact that he couldn't control migration and fulfill his pledge and it also cost him the referendum!

Cheers
Nito
terry lloyd likes this.
__________________
"She'll make .5 past lightspeed"

Last edited by NITO; 29th June 2016 at 02:36 PM..
NITO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2016, 02:42 PM   #425 (permalink)
Zippee is unaware they can edit their status
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexJ View Post
Many high immigration urban areas voted remain I thought. Many of the areas with the highest leave % have seen little immigration.
bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36616740
__________________
Zippee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2016, 02:58 PM   #426 (permalink)
Adamantium is apparently poisonous to Wolverine - who knew?
Registered
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: London
Cars owned: Audi S5 3.0TFSi, Audi Q5 3.0TDi
Posts: 9,073
Quote:
Originally Posted by NITO View Post
Cameron in telling the EU that he lost the referendum because of their view on immigration, is to me a misleading statement because it implies that is the only reason that people have objected to the EU when we know there is far more to it and far more wrong with it. Imho, because he has failed to deliver on his manifesto pledge, this is his scapegoat, he can now blame the EU for the fact that he couldn't control migration and fulfill his pledge and it also cost him the referendum!

Cheers
Nito
He's lost much more than the referendum, he's lost his job, he's also lost his legacy.

He was the Prime Minister who was in charge during the successful Scottish referendum, the great London Olympics, the strongest recovery from the worst recession in living memory.

Now he allowed the referendum in fear of losing a general election, he lost it, and he will be responsible for the UK economy possibly returning to recession (don't think it will happen) leaving Europe and probably losing Scotland.
NITO and OldBob like this.
__________________



Last edited by Adamantium; 29th June 2016 at 03:47 PM..
Adamantium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2016, 04:01 PM   #427 (permalink)
tonigmr2 is Happy to get my R34 back!
GT-RDC Founder Member
 
tonigmr2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Herts
Cars owned: MR2 TC, 981 3.4S, Disco5, R34 & R35
Posts: 15,450
Well the Spanish and French have told the Scottish to get knotted.

Brexit: Spain and France oppose Scotland EU talks - BBC News

Quote:
Speaking ahead of his meeting with Ms Sturgeon, Mr Juncker said: "Scotland won the right to be heard in Brussels so I will listen carefully to what the first minister will tell me.

"But we don't have the intention, neither Donald Tusk nor myself, to interfere in an inner British process that is not our duty and this is not our job."
EU - computer says no!
__________________
The future is Gold.

Girls drive GTRs too

Next event is our GT-RDC Silverstone Classics. OMG look at the cars we’ve got coming...from Hako to MY20 Nismo!
tonigmr2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2016, 04:11 PM   #428 (permalink)
Mookistar is so happy to be out of Skyline ownership
Site Admin.
 
Mookistar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Autoguide.com
Cars owned: Mookiwagen Passat and a good nights sleep
Posts: 31,166
FTSE has recovered.
__________________
Autoguide.com
Mookistar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2016, 04:12 PM   #429 (permalink)
Adamantium is apparently poisonous to Wolverine - who knew?
Registered
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: London
Cars owned: Audi S5 3.0TFSi, Audi Q5 3.0TDi
Posts: 9,073
With oil where it is, and Scotland having to join the Euro if it leaves the UK anyway, and the fact that it is heavily subsidised by London. I'm inclined to say "see ya" if they think they'll be better off.
__________________


Adamantium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2016, 04:18 PM   #430 (permalink)
tonigmr2 is Happy to get my R34 back!
GT-RDC Founder Member
 
tonigmr2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Herts
Cars owned: MR2 TC, 981 3.4S, Disco5, R34 & R35
Posts: 15,450
Still don't fundamentally understand why rule from Brussels is better for Scotland than from Westminster. It seems such a paradox when independence is the reason touted.
__________________
The future is Gold.

Girls drive GTRs too

Next event is our GT-RDC Silverstone Classics. OMG look at the cars we’ve got coming...from Hako to MY20 Nismo!
tonigmr2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2016, 04:21 PM   #431 (permalink)
NITO is officially out of the Skyline scene!
Registered
 
NITO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Kent
Cars owned: CLS63S AMG Shooting Brake
Posts: 1,981
Er,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJvVeiunNUs

I was going to say something nasty but I don't want to offend anyone from Scotland....mmm...mmm....what a douche...Sorry!
__________________
"She'll make .5 past lightspeed"
NITO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2016, 04:31 PM   #432 (permalink)
AlexJ is as AlexJ does
GTR.co.uk seasoned Member
 
AlexJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: West Sussex
Cars owned: BNR32 HCR32
Posts: 2,141
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonigmr2 View Post
Still don't fundamentally understand why rule from Brussels is better for Scotland than from Westminster. It seems such a paradox when independence is the reason touted.
Partly because the rest of UK always votes for the "other side", so they never get the government they vote for in Scotland. Also they see their social democratic values better matched with the EU.
NITO likes this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
AlexJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2016, 04:32 PM   #433 (permalink)
AlexJ is as AlexJ does
GTR.co.uk seasoned Member
 
AlexJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: West Sussex
Cars owned: BNR32 HCR32
Posts: 2,141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippee View Post
bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36616740
Nationally though:

EU referendum: How the results compare to the UK's educated, old and immigrant populations

Quotes:
"Areas with high immigration wanted to stay in the EU"

"Levels of education and class overlap strongly in the UK, and so the Brexit vote also matched up with areas with higher levels of people from the DE social class - meaning people in semi-skilled or unskilled labour, those in casual labour and pensioners. "
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
AlexJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2016, 04:33 PM   #434 (permalink)
NITO is officially out of the Skyline scene!
Registered
 
NITO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Kent
Cars owned: CLS63S AMG Shooting Brake
Posts: 1,981
Fair point...

to the "other side" comment.
__________________
"She'll make .5 past lightspeed"
NITO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2016, 04:39 PM   #435 (permalink)
NITO is officially out of the Skyline scene!
Registered
 
NITO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Kent
Cars owned: CLS63S AMG Shooting Brake
Posts: 1,981
I met someone today who had Remgret. Said she was yo yoing between in and out, voted in but felt ashamed that she chickened out and betrayed her wishes!
__________________
"She'll make .5 past lightspeed"
NITO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2016, 04:54 PM   #436 (permalink)
tonigmr2 is Happy to get my R34 back!
GT-RDC Founder Member
 
tonigmr2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Herts
Cars owned: MR2 TC, 981 3.4S, Disco5, R34 & R35
Posts: 15,450
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexJ View Post
Partly because the rest of UK always votes for the "other side", so they never get the government they vote for in Scotland. Also they see their social democratic values better matched with the EU.
But Brussels is more remote and high handed and Scotland would have less influence than it has in Westminster. Plus, do they want the Euro?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexJ View Post
Nationally though:

EU referendum: How the results compare to the UK's educated, old and immigrant populations

Quotes:
"Areas with high immigration wanted to stay in the EU"

"Levels of education and class overlap strongly in the UK, and so the Brexit vote also matched up with areas with higher levels of people from the DE social class - meaning people in semi-skilled or unskilled labour, those in casual labour and pensioners. "
I think the dichotomy is higher immigration in cities voted 'in', but higher immigration in the countryside voted 'out'. I haven't properly looked at the data though - if you think about it immigration is good for cities (lots of service jobs, lots of low paid jobs) but bad for the countryside where there are fewer opportunities. And as I think I already said, the unskilled are hit the most by competition for jobs and services with immigration.

Watching the news the other day there was a commonwealth immigrant who voted 'out' (I guess he was entitled to). Reason? The Romanian/etc. immigrants were undercutting him on work pay rates....
__________________
The future is Gold.

Girls drive GTRs too

Next event is our GT-RDC Silverstone Classics. OMG look at the cars we’ve got coming...from Hako to MY20 Nismo!

Last edited by tonigmr2; 29th June 2016 at 05:01 PM..
tonigmr2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2016, 04:57 PM   #437 (permalink)
AlexJ is as AlexJ does
GTR.co.uk seasoned Member
 
AlexJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: West Sussex
Cars owned: BNR32 HCR32
Posts: 2,141
I guess they think better a benign dictator than a democratic tyrant.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
AlexJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2016, 04:59 PM   #438 (permalink)
Adamantium is apparently poisonous to Wolverine - who knew?
Registered
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: London
Cars owned: Audi S5 3.0TFSi, Audi Q5 3.0TDi
Posts: 9,073
Personally I think it's anyone except the English.

Meanwhile, FTSE has recovered to its pre-referendum level. Wonder for how long.

Just need the Pound to recover now, but it's on its way.
__________________


Adamantium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2016, 05:03 PM   #439 (permalink)
tonigmr2 is Happy to get my R34 back!
GT-RDC Founder Member
 
tonigmr2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Herts
Cars owned: MR2 TC, 981 3.4S, Disco5, R34 & R35
Posts: 15,450
As I think I said several pages back, Nicola probably just needs to admit she hates the English and will take Scotland down an 'anything but them' road.
__________________
The future is Gold.

Girls drive GTRs too

Next event is our GT-RDC Silverstone Classics. OMG look at the cars we’ve got coming...from Hako to MY20 Nismo!
tonigmr2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th June 2016, 05:03 PM   #440 (permalink)
borat52 is unaware they can edit their status
GTR.co.uk seasoned Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,154
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexJ View Post
Quotes:
"Areas with high immigration wanted to stay in the EU"

"Levels of education and class overlap strongly in the UK, and so the Brexit vote also matched up with areas with higher levels of people from the DE social class - meaning people in semi-skilled or unskilled labour, those in casual labour and pensioners. "
I'd like some unpicking here. Pensioners are all grouped "D" regardless of wealth or previous working career.

40% of 21 year olds have a degree, only 7% of over 60's do - so the young group is, in my opinion, skewed towards AB relative to older groupings as they've all been sent to 'university' to study some rather odd things.

Also I'd like some analysis regarding immigration with respect to what the underlying electorate is made up of. I've read that London is now less than 50% "white british". EU nationals who have not got a British passport could not vote but what proportion of the London electorate who could vote were British born?

Please no one jump on this observation as being racist of xenophobic, it would merely be a useful addition to the statistics to see if area's of a high foreign born electorate voted remain, rather than simply looking at migrant population (EU migrants generally were not eligible to vote).

I'm guessing up in Lincolnshire you've got high a high migrant population but not a high migrant electorate (no UK passport = no vote and EU nationals tend not to bother getting a UK passport).


I've argued an even more extreme situation with friends and work colleagues to highlight a point not being discussed in the mainstream, and I warn I've made it as extreme and controversial as possible on purpose to get everyone thinking:

Suppose we did open border to all Islamic people, and that we build lots of new towns and doubled the UK population (lets say 60 million to 120 million). How would this then influence the voting patterns of the UK? Would we see a call for Sharia? Would there be a call for Islam to be acknowledged as the official religion of the UK?

The debate I'm trying to stir up there is intended to get some recognition that not considering things like this can lead to consequences that many people would be unhappy with. Rather than just allowing the consequence to happen and having a problem (that's what just happened with EU migration) it's probably wise to plan for these eventualities first. Many are concerned that we're not having migration of people becoming UK citizens but rather pockets of other cultures living in the UK and not integrating, which is perhaps due to too many migrants being together in too few places.
__________________

Last edited by borat52; 29th June 2016 at 05:12 PM..
borat52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT. The time now is 01:07 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
http://www.Tyreforums.com

tyreforums

 

Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.