The EU Referendum

[GTRNICK]

Delete please

[moleman]

[terry lloyd]

[MS33]

Originally Posted by GTRNICK

Delete please

2nd that!

[Mookistar]

Originally Posted by terry lloyd

She's come a long way since her Rab C Nesbitt days.

[seastate]

Originally Posted by tonigmr2

I think the dichotomy is higher immigration in cities voted 'in', but higher immigration in the countryside voted 'out'.

My own view is that people who live near and know immigrants realise that they aren't really any different and people in the countryside, who never see immigrants fear the unknown.

I live in the 'countryside' now it's funny sometimes (rarely I admit) when I'm talking to a customer and then I tell them my name and I see their face drop and a momentary panic crosses their face as they realise they're talking to an immigrant

I don't take it personally and I think it's just because it's a 'thing' now, but it does highlight how different the big towns and cities are compared to the rest of the UK.

Of course this doesn't explain why Scotland, Wales and N.I all voted because I'm sure there's not many immigrants in the rural areas there. Maybe less perceived pressure for jobs?

I agree that uncontrolled immigration causes problems (mostly imagined IMO) and needs to be seen to be controlled and it will be interesting to see how hardball the EU want to get.

Worst case they say NON to free market access and impose tariffs if we impose limits - but I think they will talk tough butrealise that the UK is almost an equal to the EU on it's own and some 'real politik' will occur

[git-r]

I'm sorry I haven't read all thirty pages but can someone explain to me me in simple terms why I'm better off being out of the EU?

Everything in the news has made me think I'm much worse off as a result

[FRRACER]

Don't worry Sam you still have Goose - a life long partnership

[TAZZMAXX]

Originally Posted by git-r

Everything in the news has made me think I'm much worse off as a result

And that is possibly one of the most worrying parts of all of this - media manipulation to suit the perceived reality they want to portray. If it wasn't reported on then everything would find its own natural level and there would, most likely, be minimal disruption to the majority of the population. All the media waffling caused the last recession to be much longer and drawn out than it needed to be but there were so called 'analysts' popping up in the news telling us that the economy was still slow and there were no signs of recovery. They just talked the economy down instead of allowing it to find its own pace. The remain camp are trying the same tactics by telling the leave camp that it's all a big mistake but they have no real proof, no one does. We have to make the best of what has been chosen and move forward, not look at ways of trying to go back. It may have been the wrong choice but we won't know till we've given it a fair chance.

[snuffy]

Originally Posted by git-r

Everything in the news has made me think I'm much worse off as a result

Yes, that's the whole idea. Especially from the BBC.

[moleman]

Originally Posted by git-r

I'm sorry I haven't read all thirty pages but can someone explain to me me in simple terms why I'm better off being out of the EU?

This (stolen from elsewhere) should clarify some of it for you.

The leader of the opposition campaigned to stay but secretly wanted to leave, so his party held a non-binding vote to shame him into resigning so someone else could lead the campaign to ignore the result of the non-binding referendum which many people now think was just angry people trying to shame politicians into seeing they'd all done nothing to help them.

Meanwhile, the man who campaigned to leave because he hoped losing would help him win the leadership of his party, accidentally won and ruined any chance of leading because the man who thought he couldn't lose, did - but resigned before actually doing the thing the vote had been about. The man who'd always thought he'd lead next, campaigned so badly that everyone thought he was lying when he said the economy would crash - and he was, but it did, but he's not resigned, but, like the man who lost and the man who won, also now can't become leader. Which means the woman who quietly campaigned to stay but always said she wanted to leave is likely to become leader instead.

Which means she holds the same view as the leader of the opposition but for opposite reasons, but her party's view of this view is the opposite of the opposition's. And the opposition aren't yet opposing anything because the leader isn't listening to his party, who aren't listening to the country, who aren't listening to experts or possibly paying that much attention at all. However, none of their opponents actually want to be the one to do the thing that the vote was about, so there's not yet anything actually on the table to oppose anyway.

[seastate]

Originally Posted by moleman

Quote:
The leader of the opposition ... etc

Haha - that's about it in a nutshell

Here's another good quote
“For 25 years our press has fed the British public a diet of distorted, mendacious and relentlessly hostile stories about the EU – and the journalist who set the tone was Boris Johnson. He is now campaigning against the cartoon caricature of the EU that he himself created.”

[git-r]

thanks for the replies chaps, I still don't know why I'm better off out though.

[NITO]

With respect, it's 31 pages long for a reason, page 1 would be a good start

There's a lot of grey area in the debate, some might effect you, some won't, some you might relate to and other stuff you won't. Everyone's position and values are different so no one can advise you on why you would be better off or not. Only you can be the judge of that.

[Mookistar]

Originally Posted by git-r

thanks for the replies chaps, I still don't know why I'm better off out though.

Adamantium summed it up perfectly a few pages back.

The remain vote was not about voting for the status quo.

The remain side involves as fundamental a change in our countries future as a Leave vote. The difference being the Leave is like pulling of a Plaster quickly.

With remain we might be so entrenched in the EU that when we suddenly realise we definitely aren't happy, it's too late to go back.

[twobadmice]

I think the video sums it up nicely.

This Brexit version of Downfall takes us inside Boris Johnson?s bunker | The Poke

[NITO]

That's very amusing

[Adamantium]

Theresa May has to be the choice now.

I'm relieved it's not Boris as despite liking him, I have reservations about his ability to run a country, especially during this difficult time.

I am concerned that May was on remain side although she didn't campaign and was apparently reluctant.

On the plus side she's made it clear the referendum stands.

That means with the exception of Liam Fox everyone running is clearly standing behind the result.

I'm a little concerned given what I'm reading that people are manoeuvring to ignore the result. The more time that passes before article 50 is invoked, the more possible that becomes.

I can't see there being a second referendum but if there were, I'd be gutted.

[tonigmr2]

I think avoiding article 50 for a time isn't bad at all, it makes the EU sweat if anything rather than us. They can't make us do it.

I wouldn't necessarily be against a second referendum if it was on the terms of separation....

[keithmac]

What about Andrea Leadsom?, she was in Brexit from the start?.

I'm always wary of people that switch sides/ ideals to further their own career..