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Old 31st January 2017, 10:48 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Sub Boy View Post
That's the power graph....were is the boost pressure graph? That doesn't show us anything.
I would say it's making positive boost at 2500rpm, but not much chance of it making max boost at that rpm on -5 turbos.....more like 4500rpm
Maybe he meant positive boost at 2500rpm? Will go for the final mapping soon will make sure to ask for a boost graph as well mate
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Old 31st January 2017, 11:21 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by truupR View Post
I've never driven anything with over 400bhp. Sometimes I wonder if the idea or concept of having huge power is more appealing than the actual reality of driving it. I'm hoping someone with experience driving big power cars could shed some light on what they're actually like to live with? Can you even use the car anywhere near its full potential with over 500bhp on public roads?
Only REAL way to answer your question is to have it built up to 4/450hp as you intend. Drive it around for a while and then decide.

I guarantee you that, with the best resolve in the world, you'll be wanting MORE at some point.
Now I'm not suggesting you go out and do the 5-600hp build. I'm saying you should get the R34 turbo's etc as you already have, fitted and then YOU decide if that's enough after giving it, say, 3 months.

Easy..



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Old 31st January 2017, 01:02 PM   #43 (permalink)
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I had a td05-18g on my old 33gtst.. that was off an evo.. designed for super low end response but it topped out at 6krpm. It would make full boost by about 3-3500 and that was crazy responsive. I think like you guys say it's on pos boost by 2500 and then it'll climb.. the power graph there seems to reflect that.
Either way if it's good power and very drive able then awesome sauce

As for the -7 sod it.. chuck em in there lol! Why not have some fun or just keep if all for when your current tubs give up and then you got some kit to upgrade half the time it's why we all upgrade anyway.

As for the modded cars don't make as much I'd be utterly peeved if someone took out their tired oem tubs then just replaced with a new set of oem then tried to charge me a small fortune on that car saying "oh yeah I did a tub swap.. just stuck a new set of oem in and it's running 1bar" then tries to sell me at shop floor prices I'd be laughing. I'd wanna know the guy stuck some gtss or something solid.. even if not running full boost.

I personally can't stand this "unmodded is worth more" mindset which always just seems to blanket put down a good car... good mods done right give you confidence in the car and I'd be giving that car a chance over a tired one that's prob gonna need a hg doing.. tubs swapping.. suspension.. afm woes etc etc etc.
Someone fitting an engine brace, pointless carbon garnish and some cheap suspension.. Yeah I'd be Hmmmm.. but someone going nah I saved the money.. stuck a set of ohlins on.. some decent brakes and I had the cambelt water pump and hg done and the turbos are reconditioned.. that car and the owner would speak to me way more overall.
It's all debatable but I'm personally tired of that argument.. I would trust much more of the cars you chaps are selling on here than the traders stuff personally. We love to look after them.

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Old 31st January 2017, 05:55 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarmac terror View Post
Only REAL way to answer your question is to have it built up to 4/450hp as you intend. Drive it around for a while and then decide.

I guarantee you that, with the best resolve in the world, you'll be wanting MORE at some point.
Now I'm not suggesting you go out and do the 5-600hp build. I'm saying you should get the R34 turbo's etc as you already have, fitted and then YOU decide if that's enough after giving it, say, 3 months.

Easy..



TT
I have to say 400 to 450 is nice but you do find yourself wanting a bit more after a little while. However that said.. I found it doesn't take an awful lot more to actually start scaring the pants off you.. once you get to 550 it really does start feeling very stupid fast esp if the tubs are responsive.. but then as said it begins to feel like there's less chances you can have the pedal floored outside of the track.
There is something about these cars tho and us wanting to make them scare us.. I think it's the roar of them usually.. we hear it and it's so gutteral and from there we just want the thing to scare us in as equally an evil way lol

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Old 31st January 2017, 05:58 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by anthonymcgrath View Post
I have to say 400 to 450 is nice but you do find yourself wanting a bit more after a little while. However that said.. I found it doesn't take an awful lot more to actually start scaring the pants off you.. once you get to 550 it really does start feeling very stupid fast esp if the tubs are responsive.. but then as said it begins to feel like there's less chances you can have the pedal floored outside of the track.
There is something about these cars tho and us wanting to make them scare us.. I think it's the roar of them usually.. we hear it and it's so gutteral and from there we just want the thing to scare us in as equally an evil way lol

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You haven't mentioned your mates car this time

One day I should take you out in mine lol
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Old 31st January 2017, 06:46 PM   #46 (permalink)
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You haven't mentioned your mates car this time

One day I should take you out in mine lol
That's cos he's a total **** womble lol

Defo be interesting to see some others!

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Old 1st February 2017, 01:18 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Ok time to weigh in.

I have a 34 v-spec. It's about 450hp at the flywheel on stock internals and turbos, with a reworked fuel system (nismo pump, Tomei Reg and Siemens injectors) run by a G4+.
Boost of 9PSI low, 15PSI high (450hp)

Very driveable on motorways and back roads and i don't really track it.
A few points

1: 34 GTR Turbos won't support over where i'm at presently. They still have ceramic internals and will still fly to bits on higher pressure (TBH 15PSI could be considered pushing it) but they are prone to nasty failures at anything over 1 Bar UNLESS they're N1 turbos with steel internals or have been reconditioned with better cores.

2: Check your build ideas more thoroughly. For instance you list Z32 AFM's but a Link G4 uses MAP, so you'd be better to get AFM delete pipes. hey, that's what the boards are for though yeah

3: Over engineering isn't a bad thing as long as it doesn't hurt your mid term goals. EG: I have 860cc injectors that get NOWHERE near max however they flow well at the level i use them.

4: Coming from Hondas the RB engines will be right in your wheelhouse in that they're almost bi-polar in nature, being relatively low power and docile down low and developing power later in the RPM range. however coming from Hondas means that you haven't had to deal with Torque in any decent amounts (i had an S2k, great car but no down low puff!) if you were in an RWD Skyline i'd say it'd be an issue BUT ATESSA should keep you on the right track
However...

5: Why are you chasing these numbers? If they're intimidating maybe hold off for now and get used to the car? This way you'll grow into the power Also, if you're upping the power look at a better G-sensor or torque controller. Also look at improved cooling (oil cooler), handling (suspension, TYRES!!!) and BRAKES!!!!!! Otherwise you may be left short should you need to pull up fast after upping the power

For what you're asking and thinking about i'd be inclined to leave it alone until 200km/h (125mi/h) seems a bit bland. Once you're at that stage you'll be starting to think less about numbers and more about how the car feels.
If you were dead set about improving power then get an ECU, maybe fuel system improvements and a tune but leave it there until you have a clear picture about where you're going next.
Some of the roads i run on you can't even use what i've got, let alone 5-600hp. Between the road surface, oncoming traffic, potential for critters not to mention oncomming traffic it just gets too dicey in 80k nzd worth of car.

Last word (well done for making it this far!) i don't understand why people obsess about massive power builds, with media generally only featuring high HP builds. Great for drags and bragging rights but i'd far rather have a bit of power and the ability to put it down properly than all the power of the Gods and another GT-R wasted on the drag strip.
(insert anecdote about snow shoes all year round here)

So, well done for doing things your way man! Make sure you keep us up to date with your build!
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Old 1st February 2017, 03:04 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Quite the novel Ares! Was a good read though

I'll reply to each point!

1. I think the subject of how much boost to run is.... debatable at the very least. I'd probably be aiming for 1.2bar. I don't rev the car past 7k nor do I do silly 1st gear launches. I hear people having turbos fail at less than 1bar while others have ran at 1.4 bar(!) with no problems. It's often luck, how the car is tuned, and driven will inevitably lead to bits of turbo flying out the exhaust or not

2.I wasn't fully aware of how the Link G4 worked with the AFM's. I knew there was an option to have them removed and mapped out, didn't realise it was mandatory with that ECU though. Not entirely sure if I'll use a Link, haven't looked too much into ECU options at the moment due to its hefty cost. It's either a Link with no AFM's or bigger AFM's + different ecu (nistune perhaps). I haven't fully ironed out the nitty gritty of the build until I'm in a position to part with the cash. I'll certainly be doing my research though, I appreciate the heads up!

3. I do love how over-engineered the RB engine is it's nice to know that I shouldn't really be considering a rebuild unless I'm going beyond 550/600bhp. I know there's that aus/nz youtube channel that runs a single turbo R32 with over 700bhp on a stock bottom end just to see how much power it can hold.

4. I've had a few poop your pants moments in the wet where I've got a little over-confident and too used to how a DC5 can hammer around a corner. the Atessa system has saved me every time though. Luckily I wasn't going stupidly fast and the car very quickly corrected.

5. I'm chasing more power just... BECAUSE! the car certainly feels restrained in stock form. By today's standards it isn't exactly blisteringly fast either. I dropped the idea of going forced induction on my DC5 simply because I didn't feel it was a good enough platform for a big power build. I've had the pleasure of driving a single turbo'd DC5 with almost 400bhp at the front wheels. It's a riot to drive but you can almost tell a Honda isn't meant to be running that sort of power. Not something I'd want to live with every day if I'm honest.

The simple idea behind what I want to do is - get mods that are future proof. I'll never really have to upgrade my Mines downpipe, HPI elbows or decat. Fuel pump is the next purchase. After that it's either a boost controller, or go the next level and get an ECU with a remap. If I go the new ECU route, that's when the costs start to go up substantially.

Depending on funds at the time I'd like to get the 34 turbos fitted with bigger injectors, oil cooler, new ECU and a remap so I can rinse the most power out of them. Beyond that if the power isn't enough - I can simply swap out the 34 turbos for some 2860's or N1's and remap again. At least everything will be in place ready for more power. That's the idea anyway..
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Old 1st February 2017, 05:05 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Good read all this..

Just on the ecu front by the time you get a nistune, uprated afms and a boost control you'll be into link g4 territory money wise most likely so bear that in mind esp when the link (as said) can be mapped speed/density (map) and deal with control boost too once you fit the mac boost solenoid (Btw it can be mapped with afms too if you desire that).. The link really is a fantastic piece of kit for the money and future proofs you too. I've run 3 now across different skylines. I run speed /density every time. It's just one less thing to fret about in the engine as afm are considered a service/replace item with nissan after certain mileage.

Fuel pump is defo good idea along with injectors if you haven't got em. My mates is running Sard 800cc injectors and a Sard fuel pump kit. Good equipment.

It it was me I would have the -7 tubs fitted, along with your fuel pump and injectors.. and link g4 and you'll be sitting easy on 500+ but you can run a low/hi boost setting so you can have it a bit more like it is now but then a scare button

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Old 4th February 2017, 01:44 AM   #50 (permalink)
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How much is too much? Well, it obviously depends on who you are. If you are hard core and experianced id say about 600whp for rwd cars. On the street it wont be any faster or more fun with more power.
For awd my guess is four figures though.
I have several friends with rwd turbo cars on 600-950+whp but i have no experiance with high power awd cars. So my estimate comes from my R33 GT-R making 600hp. And its a lot of fun but no where near "too much" in my opinion. It still cant outrun a dead stock S1000RR superbike even in a straight line and it wont ever light up all four other than from a stand still.
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Old 4th February 2017, 07:26 AM   #51 (permalink)
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How much is too much? Well, it obviously depends on who you are. If you are hard core and experianced id say about 600whp for rwd cars. On the street it wont be any faster or more fun with more power.
For awd my guess is four figures though.
I have several friends with rwd turbo cars on 600-950+whp but i have no experiance with high power awd cars. So my estimate comes from my R33 GT-R making 600hp. And its a lot of fun but no where near "too much" in my opinion. It still cant outrun a dead stock S1000RR superbike even in a straight line and it wont ever light up all four other than from a stand still.
Do you drive your car like you're on a track around the streets in your city?? Wow you must have some long wide roads.
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Old 4th February 2017, 07:51 AM   #52 (permalink)
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As soon as it compromises reliability.
Do your research properly and find out what will work for you
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Old 4th February 2017, 08:19 AM   #53 (permalink)
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Do you drive your car like you're on a track around the streets in your city?? Wow you must have some long wide roads.
No, not in the city. But outside i drive it quite hard at times. Long roads we have, everything is far away up here. And wide enough i guess. Not much traffic at night and midnightsun helps.
That said, my GT-R works fine to drive in heavy and slow traffic. I think clutch operation and engine tune are critical for this, regardless of max power.
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Old 4th February 2017, 08:51 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Also, more power is not only more expensive to build, its more expensive to run. Fuel of course (even when not using the power) and maintenance. There will always be issues to deal with even without breakdowns. And it will naturaly be more prone to break down.
I think it is well worth both the money and effort, but its not for everybody. I would nerver be able to afford it if i didnt do all the work on the car myself. I hardly can even so... Still i will keep increasing the power until i find out how much is enough for me. 600 is definitely not, anyway.
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Old 4th February 2017, 10:36 AM   #55 (permalink)
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Still i will keep increasing the power until i find out how much is enough for me. 600 is definitely not, anyway.
Jeez the thought of 600 scares me.. 500 is mental enough when there's response too! Big balls matey lol



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Old 12th April 2017, 07:47 AM   #56 (permalink)
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Is 500bhp not insane in an gtr, my scirocco was around 340bhp fwd and I thought that was crazy on the street but enjoyable.
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Old 12th April 2017, 08:03 AM   #57 (permalink)
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Is 500bhp not insane in an gtr, my scirocco was around 340bhp fwd and I thought that was crazy on the street but enjoyable.
It's quick, but you adjust to it.

Skylines start to make sense at about 500bhp imo.
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Old 13th April 2017, 10:06 AM   #58 (permalink)
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I've got 565bhp in my 33 GTR and it has no problem pottering around town. Most of my driving in it doesn't get much above 40 these days but that's because of local circumstances. I built it chasing 600 which was a bit unnecessary as 565 is more than enough. I never really get the space to stretch her legs but with the way it drives around town it's easy to forget it's a bit of an animal. I assume over engineering the car and the hardware i put into it helps the tune-ability and drive-ability however.
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Old 23rd April 2017, 05:54 PM   #59 (permalink)
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I had a GTST running over 500hp with a holset HX35 turbo. This was fun driveable car with turbo coming in just over 3000rpm. I had a Spec single plate clutch in which took the power without being snatchy or heavy.

My 2nd car was a 33GTR, 2.8 Stroker with HKST51R turbo pushing figures over 750hp. I had the OS Giken triple plate clutch. On the open road the car was awesome fun, albeit a bit laggy had to keep revs up over 4000rpm for any turbo response. In traffic, a complete nightmare because of the clutch. If I stalled it (which I did regularly with the clutch snatching) then it wouldn't always want to start as such massive injectors throwing in the fuel...

I'm about to embark on my 3rd, another 33GTR running same engine utility gone for Garett 3582 gen 2 turbo, ID injectors, an ATS carbon ceramic clutch and the latest Link G4 ecu. I'm looking for over 750hp again but want more driveability which I hope go achieve from the GT3582 gen 2 turbo coming in around 3250-3500rpm and of course the ceramic clutch.

As many have said, modify the car to suit you. It can't hurt to get the set up capable of more even if you start of running less than the car's full capability. You'll find you'll get used to whatever power you run and it's nice to know that you can make minor changes in the future, have a remap and see more horsepower.

Good luck whichever route you go. Main thing is make sure you continue to enjoy the car as after all that's why we all have them...
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Old 28th May 2017, 09:34 PM   #60 (permalink)
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400hp ish if you want to thrash the gtr about like a hot hatch it will feel slow pretty quickly but it's a very usable power level for a gtr
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