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Old 9th February 2017, 05:13 PM   #1 (permalink)
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High HP Single Turbo Fuel System, Surge tank, Fuel Pumps - Need suggestion

Hi guys. I'm doing some upgrades to my BCNR33.
I've bought a set of ID1000 injectors to replace my old set of Sard 720cc.
The fuel rail is a Border Racing dual entry and the fuel pressure reg. is Sard.
In my garage I've a brand new In-Tank Walbro 460L and fitted in the car there is a Bosch 044 in-tank.

The question is:
I'll want to do a decent amount of power.
With my old configuration (720cc Inj, 044 in-tank, Sard fpr, Border Rail) my highest boost was 1.6bar with around 700hp at the flywheel.
My engine is a N1 block forged 2.7, singleturbo T51R KAI, greddy plenum, 272° cams, etc.

What I need for complete my fuel system to run safety on a decent amount of boost? I was thinking to go for 1.8/2.0 bar

My idea was:
- Walbro 460L in-Tank
- 3L Surge Tank
- 2x Bosch 044 external
- Sard FPR
- Border Racing Fuel Rail
- ID1000 Injectors

The other idea was:
- Bosch 044 in-Tank
- 3L Surge Tank with 2x Walbro 460L in the surge tank like this: Fuel Surge Tank (v2) "Twin Walbro 460L E85"
- Sard FPR
- Border Racing Fuel Rail
- ID1000 Injectors

I'm open to any suggestion and help for the configuration and size of the lines.

Many thanks.
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Old 9th February 2017, 10:15 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BNR34Zed View Post
Hi guys. I'm doing some upgrades to my BCNR33.
I've bought a set of ID1000 injectors to replace my old set of Sard 720cc.
The fuel rail is a Border Racing dual entry and the fuel pressure reg. is Sard.
In my garage I've a brand new In-Tank Walbro 460L and fitted in the car there is a Bosch 044 in-tank.

The question is:
I'll want to do a decent amount of power.
With my old configuration (720cc Inj, 044 in-tank, Sard fpr, Border Rail) my highest boost was 1.6bar with around 700hp at the flywheel.
My engine is a N1 block forged 2.7, singleturbo T51R KAI, greddy plenum, 272° cams, etc.

What I need for complete my fuel system to run safety on a decent amount of boost? I was thinking to go for 1.8/2.0 bar

My idea was:
- Walbro 460L in-Tank
- 3L Surge Tank
- 2x Bosch 044 external
- Sard FPR
- Border Racing Fuel Rail
- ID1000 Injectors

The other idea was:
- Bosch 044 in-Tank
- 3L Surge Tank with 2x Walbro 460L in the surge tank like this: Fuel Surge Tank (v2) "Twin Walbro 460L E85"
- Sard FPR
- Border Racing Fuel Rail
- ID1000 Injectors

I'm open to any suggestion and help for the configuration and size of the lines.

Many thanks.

Walbro 460L in-Tank
- 3L Surge Tank
- 2x Bosch 044 external
- Sard FPR
- Border Racing Fuel Rail
- ID1000 Injectors

This.


TT
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Old 9th February 2017, 10:35 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Like that surge tank with pumps in, tasty.
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Old 9th February 2017, 11:27 PM   #4 (permalink)
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What management are you running?

I have a similar build to you but 2.8 step 3.
I have apexi in tank feeding swirl pot with twin 044's running PWM off AEM infinity 10.
Still have a lot of tuning to do when the weather gets better but runs sweet so far.
Nice to be able to wind down the 044s with PWM.
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Old 10th February 2017, 12:03 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lightspeed View Post
What management are you running?

I have a similar build to you but 2.8 step 3.
I have apexi in tank feeding swirl pot with twin 044's running PWM off AEM infinity 10.
Still have a lot of tuning to do when the weather gets better but runs sweet so far.
Nice to be able to wind down the 044s with PWM.

I have a Link G4+ ECU running without mafs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tarmac terror View Post
Walbro 460L in-Tank
- 3L Surge Tank
- 2x Bosch 044 external
- Sard FPR
- Border Racing Fuel Rail
- ID1000 Injectors

This.


TT
Why that configuration and not the other?
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Old 10th February 2017, 12:04 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Like that surge tank with pumps in, tasty.
Yeah, I was tempted to that surge tank because I can leave the boot really clean and I can't hear the noise of the external pumps
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Old 10th February 2017, 09:58 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BNR34Zed View Post
I have a Link G4+ ECU running without mafs.



Why that configuration and not the other?
To be honest, both configurations are just as effective. Boils down to personal preference and I just happen to prefer a nice pair of external 044's.


At the end of the day it's your choice..


TT
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Old 10th February 2017, 02:05 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BNR34Zed View Post
Yeah, I was tempted to that surge tank because I can leave the boot really clean and I can't hear the noise of the external pumps
I have a similar setup in my S14 (034 Motorsports version).

Works very well and does keep the noise down quite a bit.

Don't know if it would work on the R33, but I used an R34 fuel tank lid with push-fit to -6 adapters to keep everything tidy:

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Old 10th February 2017, 02:17 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarmac terror View Post
To be honest, both configurations are just as effective. Boils down to personal preference and I just happen to prefer a nice pair of external 044's.


At the end of the day it's your choice..


TT
The Walbro 460L in-tank isn't too big for feed the surge tank?

I've the option to do this:
- Bosch 044 in the main tank (to feed the 3L surge tank)
- 3L surge tank connected to twin Bosch 044
- from the surge tank to 2x Bosch 044 external connected one per side of the rail (twin feed fuel rail)
- return from the top of the fuel rail to the surge tank
- return from the surge tank to the main tank

Size of the hoses?
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Old 10th February 2017, 03:25 PM   #10 (permalink)
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702.8bhp at the fly @ 2bar of boost and im using 2 walbro 255 intank fuel pumps, siemens 860cc injectors and greddy fuel rail.

One walbro feeds 1 end of the rail and the other feeds the other end, return in the middle goes into sytec fuel pressure reg

Simple effective set up, no swirl tank on mine because I don't do any track work and its mainly a road car so don't see the need for it really
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Old 13th February 2017, 08:13 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkso View Post
702.8bhp at the fly @ 2bar of boost and im using 2 walbro 255 intank fuel pumps, siemens 860cc injectors and greddy fuel rail.

One walbro feeds 1 end of the rail and the other feeds the other end, return in the middle goes into sytec fuel pressure reg

Simple effective set up, no swirl tank on mine because I don't do any track work and its mainly a road car so don't see the need for it really
I like to stay safe and I'll use the car for a couple of trackdays.
So, swirl tank is the safest configuration.

What size of fuel hoses?
I was planning AN8 for the feed and AN6 return.
Is okay? Or maybe both AN8
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Old 16th February 2017, 05:38 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I would personally go

Aem/asnu 340 intank pump
Radium engineering swirl pot with capabilities of running 3 walbro 465
Fuel lab/aeromotive etc fpr
Each 465 pump triggered individually by ecu
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Old 1st March 2017, 09:00 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Fuel System

Guys


Am in same boat on a Rb30 - T51 Kai

Although I bought a new rips tank with twin bosch 44s I don't want the noise from the boot so would prefer in tank solution to keep boot standard.

Any suggestions for twin in tank systems? I know a company in the USA and Aus supply an adaptor so twin in tank pumps fit the standard housing?

Any thoughts guys?

Regards
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Old 1st March 2017, 10:14 PM   #14 (permalink)
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If you want to keep the noise down just pwm the 044's.

Really works great. I'm using Hella solid state relays.
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Old 1st March 2017, 10:37 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I just run one Veyron in tank pump and done lol

Injectors are asnu 1500cc because it's mapped to ethanol.

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/perfor...n-p1-fuel-pump
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Old 5th April 2017, 10:35 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lightspeed View Post
If you want to keep the noise down just pwm the 044's.

Really works great. I'm using Hella solid state relays.
What is the part number of the hella relay you are using? I have one i'm using for driving the power steering solenoid.

Do you have any flyback diodes fitted across the pumps or are you relying purely on the SSRs internal circuitry?
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Old 5th April 2017, 11:42 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Flybacks on the pumps.

Part same as this one

http://www.lingenfelter.com/PDFdownl...LA41773001.pdf
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Old 6th April 2017, 06:52 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Thanks, yes thats the one I have. What spec of diode did you use? I've used basic 4007 rectifiers for high ohm solenoids but the pas solenoid and fuel pumps would be too much current for one of those.

Lingenfelter sell a TVS diode which is what you'd need for very fast flyback as it allows a high voltage to build before passing current (say 30v). Good for injectors where you need microsecond control.
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