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Old 22nd March 2017, 08:21 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Stage 2 to stage 4.25 - is it worth it?

I'm currently running a stage 2 with downpipes. It will cost me around £1800 to go to stage 4.25.
I know there's plenty of talk on the forum about the stages and I'm fairly aware of what it involves. I thought I'd post to get some opinions as I'm in two minds about.
My question is, is it worth from a power perspective and financial?
I don't track the car, only use it for spirited driving so never really hit those tops speeds (of 70mph ) for that long.
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Old 22nd March 2017, 08:42 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Imho yes it is. 4.25 is the sweet spot. Bear in mind that downpipes increase exhaust loudness depending on your y-pipe and back box combo.
I chose to have a new exhaust to quite the car down with downpipes as it was just too loud for me but plenty of folks are happy with that increase in sound.
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Old 22nd March 2017, 08:44 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I have boost logic downpipes and a Linney Street Titan exhaust system and titan Y pipe FYI
Not to be pedantic but what makes it sweet spot? Is it the acceleration at higher speeds or does it already increase the torque at lower speeds to a noticeable amount?
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Old 22nd March 2017, 08:54 AM   #4 (permalink)
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If you have downpipes I'd be concerned about running lean on the stock injectors anyway so adding bigger ones gives your tune safety.

Your tuner can then alter your map to provide more BHP across the whole rev range whilst reducing timing to cap the torque to a safer level.

Without bigger intakes you're also not benefitting from the extra gas flow the downpipes allow.

Earlier turbo spool means more response to throttle inputs as well as more power under foot.

You'll notice the difference straight away.

I call it the sweet spot as it frees the engine from gas flow restrictions whilst improving throttle response and power in any gear. It's the stock engine in its best form removed of the restrictions placed upon it by emission regs etc.
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Old 22nd March 2017, 08:55 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Think Charlie means taking into account increase in power vs amount of money required to achieve it. Also, 4.25 is the limit for much of the stock internals before you start to significantly increase the risk of failure.

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Old 22nd March 2017, 09:07 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by james_barker View Post
Think Charlie means taking into account increase in power vs amount of money required to achieve it. Also, 4.25 is the limit for much of the stock internals before you start to significantly increase the risk of failure.

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Spot on.

Stage 2 always seemed to me to be a bit of a waste of money to me especially if you've spent quite a bit adding downpipes.

I'd have gone stage 4 before downpipes (it's actually what I did) as the other bits (intakes injectors new map) add more for only a little more expense.
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Old 22nd March 2017, 09:17 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Also £1800 seems a little high?

Injector Dynamics 1000cc are £600 ish.
Larger intakes and filters £400 ish

£800 labour is way over for how easy the above are to fit.

I haven't taken into account tuning costs but maybe £300?
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Old 22nd March 2017, 09:20 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Stage 2 to stage 4.25 - is it worth it?

http://www.litchfieldimports.co.uk/C...ing_matrix.pdf

Spoke to Sly at my servicing on the weekend and he confirmed it too. Hence why not sure really
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Old 22nd March 2017, 09:25 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I suppose labour costs for you Southerners is higher than for us Northern monkeys.

Regardless of a few hundred quid difference it's well worth it anyway.
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Old 22nd March 2017, 09:35 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Fcuk me them prices are crazy £1100 for a stage 1 ( remap ) on topic i noticed a big difference stage 2 to 4 well worth it in performance gains, you have to be a bit more careful coming out of roundabouts etc stage 2 you could just floor it stage 4 you can light up the tyres quite easy
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Old 22nd March 2017, 10:23 AM   #11 (permalink)
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4.25 all day long.
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Old 22nd March 2017, 10:47 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Im currently at stage 4 going in monday for new.asnu 1100cc injectors and a fresh remap...for some reason the previous owner done all the work but not the injectors ! Baffled at that one...
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Old 22nd March 2017, 10:49 AM   #13 (permalink)
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That is an odd one.

Really risking going lean on stock injectors and bigger intakes.
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Old 22nd March 2017, 10:51 AM   #14 (permalink)
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That is an odd one.

Really risking going lean on stock injectors and bigger intakes.
Very weird had at 600 package and down pipes but kept stock injectors ...tuner had never seen that before usually other way around ? Injectors then dow pipes if not done when exhaust fitted...
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Old 22nd March 2017, 11:49 AM   #15 (permalink)
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The new COBB Stage 2 maps have calibrations for big intakes on stock injectors
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Old 22nd March 2017, 12:06 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Also £1800 seems a little high?

Injector Dynamics 1000cc are £600 ish.
Larger intakes and filters £400 ish

£800 labour is way over for how easy the above are to fit.

I haven't taken into account tuning costs but maybe £300?
- Bosch EV14 1000cc injectors cost me £416 /set,
- 3" SS intakes self-made + filters £130,
- custom remapping £400
£946 in total and installation/fabrication took about 2-3hours in total.
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Old 22nd March 2017, 12:09 PM   #17 (permalink)
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For road use no.
Mines a stage 2 and on the various road trip meets my car has kept up with the stage 4's and 4.25.
For track use yes and if you have £1800 then go for it but do you need it?
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Old 22nd March 2017, 12:32 PM   #18 (permalink)
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For road use no.
Mines a stage 2 and on the various road trip meets my car has kept up with the stage 4's and 4.25.
For track use yes and if you have £1800 then go for it but do you need it?
By the same token, for road use you don't even need a stage 2 then.
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Old 22nd March 2017, 12:36 PM   #19 (permalink)
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By the same token, for road use you don't even need a stage 2 then.


There's actually some truth in that although the stage 2 is almost to easy to get to as most owners want an exhaust change.
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Old 22nd March 2017, 12:43 PM   #20 (permalink)
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There's actually some truth in that although the stage 2 is almost to easy to get to as most owners want an exhaust change.


For road use we should all buy electric self driving cars

You're right TREG I don't need it and I'm 50/50 about upgrading so just wanted the view of other enthusiasts it's been useful so far...
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