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Old 19th June 2018, 07:02 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Another stock oil pump failure

Well my time has come, the stock oil pump has failed on start-up leaving a car show, fairly certain I heard it snap too as car shut off immediately after starting, its NEVER done that, then upon a restart is when I noticed the loss of pressure verified by 2 gauges, it was shut off after about 7 seconds, no rattling, hoping the crank is ok. Now comes the task of figuring out what parts I want, mainly oil pump/gears, the spline drive is out due to overall cost of them plus having them installed but spool import billet gears may be the direction I go as I cannot find anyone having a failure with them. Will post pics of damage once engine is out next month. Just so everyone knows I had my limiter at 8200, shifting at 8k so was on borrowed time doing that, I just recently upped it from 7500 which has been fine for the last 3 years. Had I kept it at 7500 I'm confident this would not have happened. I do have a Fluidampr which I believed prolonged the life of the gears.
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Old 19th June 2018, 09:12 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Sorry.
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Old 20th June 2018, 03:06 AM   #3 (permalink)
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How old was the pump?
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Old 20th June 2018, 09:07 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderDriven View Post
Well my time has come, the stock oil pump has failed on start-up leaving a car show, fairly certain I heard it snap too as car shut off immediately after starting, its NEVER done that, then upon a restart is when I noticed the loss of pressure verified by 2 gauges, it was shut off after about 7 seconds, no rattling, hoping the crank is ok. Now comes the task of figuring out what parts I want, mainly oil pump/gears, the spline drive is out due to overall cost of them plus having them installed but spool import billet gears may be the direction I go as I cannot find anyone having a failure with them. Will post pics of damage once engine is out next month. Just so everyone knows I had my limiter at 8200, shifting at 8k so was on borrowed time doing that, I just recently upped it from 7500 which has been fine for the last 3 years. Had I kept it at 7500 I'm confident this would not have happened. I do have a Fluidampr which I believed prolonged the life of the gears.
You are probably aware but I tend to think of the oil pump as a wear item. If that's the original pump then that's probably not a bad innings. Escpecially as you don't know how the engine has been treated in the past.
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Old 20th June 2018, 09:54 AM   #5 (permalink)
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going to that rev limit, as you say, was only a matter of time

interesting post regarding oil pumps from motive

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eu1fcdqeovE
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Old 20th June 2018, 09:54 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Never felt comfortable shifting at 8k rpms, power starts to dip a bit for me by then so never felt the need to. What power is your 32 making?
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Old 20th June 2018, 11:35 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderDriven View Post
Well my time has come, the stock oil pump has failed on start-up leaving a car show, fairly certain I heard it snap too as car shut off immediately after starting, its NEVER done that, then upon a restart is when I noticed the loss of pressure verified by 2 gauges, it was shut off after about 7 seconds, no rattling, hoping the crank is ok. Now comes the task of figuring out what parts I want, mainly oil pump/gears, the spline drive is out due to overall cost of them plus having them installed but spool import billet gears may be the direction I go as I cannot find anyone having a failure with them. Will post pics of damage once engine is out next month. Just so everyone knows I had my limiter at 8200, shifting at 8k so was on borrowed time doing that, I just recently upped it from 7500 which has been fine for the last 3 years. Had I kept it at 7500 I'm confident this would not have happened. I do have a Fluidampr which I believed prolonged the life of the gears.

Billet gears are nothing more than a band aid. We have seen all the uprated billet pumps fail including Nitto as well. The problem is in the flat drive. Nissan Skyline GT-R s in the USA Blog: RB26dett Oil Pump Gears Going Oval : Oil Pump Failures
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Old 20th June 2018, 01:16 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Billet gears are nothing more than a band aid. We have seen all the uprated billet pumps fail including Nitto as well. The problem is in the flat drive. Nissan Skyline GT-R s in the USA Blog: RB26dett Oil Pump Gears Going Oval : Oil Pump Failures
Frracer, you sell spline drive kits so I understand why you constantly put down billet gears and the flat drive system but I ask you this, show me a couple billet gear failures and ill more than likely change my mind, I could not read about any failures of BILLET gears online (spool or reimax). What I have found is multiple people running them for years shifting them at high rpm and using launch control, etc without issues. Obviously putting billet gears on a short nose crank is a bad idea.

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How old was the pump?
Orig pump, 59k actual miles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennyboy1984 View Post
Never felt comfortable shifting at 8k rpms, power starts to dip a bit for me by then so never felt the need to. What power is your 32 making?
550 BHP roughly
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Old 20th June 2018, 02:19 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderDriven View Post
Frracer, you sell spline drive kits so I understand why you constantly put down billet gears and the flat drive system but I ask you this, show me a couple billet gear failures and ill more than likely change my mind, I could not read about any failures of BILLET gears online (spool or reimax). What I have found is multiple people running them for years shifting them at high rpm and using launch control, etc without issues. Obviously putting billet gears on a short nose crank is a bad idea.
People tend to get red in the face when the 'impossible' happens, it's all about 'keeping up appearances' with some folk




550 BHP roughly[/QUOTE]

Previous owner of my car was running similar power and blew his oil pump on the motorway racing a Porsche (and probably winning ) and had it replaced with another stock pump! As soon as I came into ownership I had that thing ripped out! They're known as the RB's 'achilles heel' for a reason...
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Old 20th June 2018, 04:10 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Must have been abused. Shocking them isnt a great idea. I have a new n1 and it hasnt disintegrated yet.
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Old 20th June 2018, 05:01 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderDriven View Post
Frracer, you sell spline drive kits so I understand why you constantly put down billet gears and the flat drive system but I ask you this, show me a couple billet gear failures and ill more than likely change my mind, I could not read about any failures of BILLET gears online (spool or reimax). What I have found is multiple people running them for years shifting them at high rpm and using launch control, etc without issues. Obviously putting billet gears on a short nose crank is a bad idea.



Orig pump, 59k actual miles



550 BHP roughly
If someone does not believe cannot force them totally their choice . But for the sake of other members here I will show some pictures below. Most were pictures either sent to us by customers or measured themselves and sent to us.

Out of Round - or oval Tomei inner ring (Sean Morris)




Broken Nitto pump - Facebook member.


Excessive clearance on brand new Reimax billet N1 gear and new long nose crank. This was measure by me.


Oval Jun gears. Pump sent to me by Sean Morris


Independent article from 2009/2010. Nothing to do with us so we cannot be accused of bias.

Nissan Skyline GTR Oil Pump Failure Problems

On a final note wide or narrow flat engagement makes little difference both can creat the same results.
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Old 20th June 2018, 05:05 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Must have been abused. Shocking them isnt a great idea. I have a new n1 and it hasnt disintegrated yet.
Never been on limiter or done any launches in my ownership, just revving to 8k rpms. Glad it happened at idle but still have a new crank on order.
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Old 20th June 2018, 05:07 PM   #13 (permalink)
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If someone does not believe cannot force them totally their choice . But for the sake of other members here I will show some pictures below. Most were pictures either sent to us by customers or measured themselves and sent to us.
Again, this is NOT a FAILURE of remaix or Spool billet gears. I am not comparing reimax or spool to Tomei or Nitto pumps both of which cost 3x+ more than billet gears. I'm looking for actual failures of them and cannot find any.
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Old 20th June 2018, 08:26 PM   #14 (permalink)
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in my ownership



__________
Yeah lucky.
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Old 20th June 2018, 09:06 PM   #15 (permalink)
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You don’t know how it’s been driven

However going past the 8k mark your looking for trouble
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Old 21st June 2018, 02:05 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Never been on limiter or done any launches in my ownership, just revving to 8k rpms. Glad it happened at idle but still have a new crank on order.
My oem pump wore on a sub 40k mile car. Of course how many of those miles were hard....

I know some people who don't believe in warming up engines and happily bounce them off the rev limiter from cold. Same purple tend to sell their cars before 30k miles (1-2 years) so as far as they are concerned this isn't a problem.

If one of these types has owned the car in the xxx years before you get to it...
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Old 21st June 2018, 09:43 PM   #17 (permalink)
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What people also need to take into consideration is how many flat drive pumps have been sold and the use and abuse they have taken. I bet there 50 times the amount of spline drive kits, let’s see the feedback in years to come when the spline kits start failing.

There are other reason why a oil pump gear will be damaged other than its a poor design.
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Old 21st June 2018, 09:45 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Frracer

What power were the tomei and nitto pumps running, what use how much abuse on 2 step launching?
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Old 21st June 2018, 10:56 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Ask Sean Morris they were from his cars.
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Old 22nd June 2018, 06:47 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Ask Sean Morris they were from his cars.


Itís like saying my os giken triple clutch only lasted 2 months! but had been launched 10 times a day with 1000hp.

How many pumps have tomei sold thousands how many gears have you sold? How many known tomei failures has there been?
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