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Old 14th September 2018, 02:34 PM   #21 (permalink)
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That's great news, pretty quick turnaround 2 mths for all that work too
Collection day is always
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Old 17th September 2018, 04:54 PM   #22 (permalink)
paulmc is looking for more power 750-800bhp is not enough
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Your tuning method is 100% correct in my book.

Being over on the M5 forum for the last year most of the tuning is like diesel. Huge midrange power dropping off the 5500rpm to red line. I hate that, if I wanted diesel style power I would buy a diesel. No-one buys a petrol car to short shift at 5500rpm especially one that revs to 7200rpm.

flat torque curve form as early as you can for as long as you can has to make an awesome drive.

I also agree on the intercooler. I fitted an RS500 intercooler to my 535d years ago and really struggled with engine cooling round town. The intercooler was so big and thick it blocked almost all the engine cooling air. I had to mess around with addition cooling ducts to keep engine temps down.

I think your car will be just right
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Old 17th September 2018, 09:28 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Your tuning method is 100% correct in my book.

Being over on the M5 forum for the last year most of the tuning is like diesel. Huge midrange power dropping off the 5500rpm to red line. I hate that, if I wanted diesel style power I would buy a diesel. No-one buys a petrol car to short shift at 5500rpm especially one that revs to 7200rpm.

flat torque curve form as early as you can for as long as you can has to make an awesome drive.

I also agree on the intercooler. I fitted an RS500 intercooler to my 535d years ago and really struggled with engine cooling round town. The intercooler was so big and thick it blocked almost all the engine cooling air. I had to mess around with addition cooling ducts to keep engine temps down.

I think your car will be just right
Thanks. I hope so too. That's good feedback on the intercooler and also my approach to tuning the car. The uncertainty on if it will work is almost too much! Nearly there now though. Looking like it might be Wednesday for final power mapping and ideally collection! Will be able to start getting to grips with the car.
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Old 17th September 2018, 09:28 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Spoke with Iain today and he said they were doing base mapping on the road. So no power, just bits on drivability and gradually adding a little boost in. Up to half a bar but didn't want to push any more due to it being a little wet and wanting the control and feedback the dyno provides (their dyno is broken at the moment - well the front rollers anyway) but should be fixed tomorrow.

Iain said the car felt good and then they applied some of the Ecutek learning from the recent Germany trip and the car responded really well to it and felt incredibly smooth. Good to know!


I had a silly problem recently. Literally 20 minutes after writing the last update on here about snags I spoke with Iain and he advised I needed a replacement v band clamp for my Russ Fellows exhaust. I knew this was a potential so had supplied one I'd bought from Ebay. Seems the particular style of v band is uncommon and not actually used by Russ Fellows anymore so not only did the one I had supplied not fit, but Russ didn't have any and back order is 3 weeks!!!!!! I pondered just plumping for a Litchfield 102mm system but to be honest I love the Russ Fellows system so much and I'm broke now! So ideally want to stay with my RF system.

To enable the car to be completed Iain has very kindly fitted a 90mm miltek for me which I can borrow until the new V band arrives and then he will pop mine back on. Delighted with this. Would have been crying otherwise! Kudos to Litchfield as they could have easily talked me into buying a brand new system there and then.

To say I'm getting excited now is an understatement. Although I'm also still pretty anxious about it. It's just about letting the time pass by as any issues is just liability now. I'm also wary of the hardware not performing, not making the desired power (particularly the ability to hold the torque at high revs) and also the set up being excessively laggy (although when I asked if it was laggy today Iain said no, not at all - I guess we shall see)

Only other issue is my old battery was leaking acid, so they have cleaned it up and fitted a new one. My battery had lasted around 4.5 years. trickle charged through winters. I guess that's ok.
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Last edited by gtr mart; 17th September 2018 at 09:30 PM..
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Old 19th September 2018, 11:06 AM   #25 (permalink)
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I've got the Race fmic and don't have any engine cooling concerns on my car, even on track. One of the nicer things on the race fmic is the reduced piping required and the re-shuffled lower mount points of the air intakes down either side of the fmic.

As the cars get older, standard items like the water & power steering rads/oil cooler etc will eventual wear and need to be replaced/upgraded with better efficient items anyhow.. part & parcel of supercar maintenance imho. My friend with a 997 GT3 had his 3 front rads replaced by porsche opc under warranty and they have failed again, now looking at better ones from csf etc. Plastic endtanks can't take the heat cycles.
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Old 20th September 2018, 09:49 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I've got the Race fmic and don't have any engine cooling concerns on my car, even on track. One of the nicer things on the race fmic is the reduced piping required and the re-shuffled lower mount points of the air intakes down either side of the fmic.
That's good info. I know in the states (slightly warner climate admittedly, particularly in places like Texas) and they can be wary of the particularly thick cores due to temperature impact. perhaps not an issue in this country under normal conditions. But it would seem it can have an effect.
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Old 20th September 2018, 11:04 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I got to see the car in action today and have to say it looks and sounds nuts! 8500RPM sounds amazing and whilst somewhat childish, seeing it rev 'off the clock' really brought a smile to my face. Was also a real treat to sit in the car whilst the master was at work and with it running on the dyno too!






Many of my fears were put to rest too and the car knocked out some insane performance numbers.

So you may recall that I am running ID1000 injectors and was worried they wouldn't be able to flow enough fuel. During early tuning they knocked out 926bhp at 81% IDC and only 1.5bar boost pressure. At this point I knew they would be fine as that's pretty damn good in my book. Should be noted that they are assisted by the Visconti drop in fuel basket with Walbro 525 Hellcat pumps, plus the hardwire kit, but still.

I was also wary of how the intercooler would get on. It's certainly more susceptible to heat than the LM Race but Iain said it was doing really well at the power. As revs and power got high it was around 60 degrees. This isn't ideal and not something that would be ok on the road. I believe Litchfield would normally look for something closer to 40 degrees or lower. A temp like that on the road would likely trigger a safeguard, or at least a warning. In this instance as the temps could be closely monitored and the fact the car was on the dyno it was ok (the car had done close to 20 runs at that point too). It also isn't seen as representative of what would happen on the road though we will be sure to monitor what actually happens. I think the shrouding that was fitted will have massively helped. A race would be preferred but so far the ETS street is doing really well and I'm very happy with my choice. As said, on the road I'm expecting it to be lower and will report accordingly. To help compensate the dyno was run a little faster at lower revs (so less resistance) to ensure when mapping at high revs it wasn't too hot and therefore more realistic. This did however exacerbate slower turbo spool-up.


The turbos ran well and didn't blow smoke out of the back of the car. Which was a good start! They are clearly savage and watching the car running on the dyno, I did wonder how crazy it will be to drive.

The reduced resistance of the dyno doesn't affect the performance figures but it does make it harder for turbos to spool up quickly. So they aren't spooled up (700lbs) until about 4600rpm on the graph. Iain said 400/500 rpm of that was due to the dyno but we would both have liked to have seen them coming in a little sooner. He suggested run the car for a bit and see if that helps them loosen up. He'll then spend a little more time on the dyno playing around with it. Looking at the graph it's almost like an S curve as it comes on boost. It seems they start to spool where you would expect, then they have a little think about it and then crack on.

When it's looked at again in a few weeks hopefully the curve will come forward. It will depend on how the car feels on the road that determine how much effort and resource I put in to trying to improve it if not.

To be clear though as the dyno ran with less resistance at lower revs Iain thinks it's 400 / 500 rpm slower spooling than it should on the road. So should be knocking out 700lbs just after 4k rpm. The curve drops off at the end as the ECU is programmed to start closing the throttle just ahead of the rev limit. Sorry for the small pics again!

The most we saw was 1087bhp at only 1.7 bar. And the engine and turbos wanted to keep going as power was not falling off, even at higher than 8k rpm! Injectors did start to struggle at that point though.




Sadly on the last run there was a slight rumble coming from the transmission so Iain aborted the run. They put the car on a ramp and drained the transmission oil and looked in the box. Iain wondered if it had dropped a tooth off 5th gear (what the dyno run is done on) but initial inspection didn't show anything sinister and there wasn't anything in the oil.

The box will come out tomorrow morning and they will have a proper look. Disappointing for sure and likely some tough decisions to make tomorrow. But for tonight, the only decision needed is Whiskey or Beer. Or both

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Last edited by gtr mart; 21st September 2018 at 09:44 PM..
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Old 21st September 2018, 02:51 AM   #28 (permalink)
Jimbostir is Wondering: Will ANDY H ever get his 32 on the road?.
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BOTH I’d say! Nice one Mart, shame about the gbox issue but I’m sure you’ll get it sorted and be issue free in no time !
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Old 21st September 2018, 10:35 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Great update, 926hp at 1.5bar and 8500rpm awesome
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Old 21st September 2018, 10:39 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Great thread and write up.

Sorry to hear about the gearbox. But better finding out the issues in a safe environment and getting it fixed before it comes home.

Best of.
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Old 21st September 2018, 11:33 AM   #31 (permalink)
Chronos is ripping up the tarmac with Godzilla ALL year round
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Nice wright up, i was thinking tho isn't it best to get a gearset chucked in when running so much power? and even tho having 1000bhp, having to cap the torque is a bit of a bitch??

"Dodson Extreme first gear and shaft, uprated Syncros." will this cut it long term at that power, as 700lb/ft is still a lot on a stock-ISH gearbox!
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Old 21st September 2018, 02:36 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Really enjoying the thread. I hope it’s a cheap fix!
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Old 21st September 2018, 02:57 PM   #33 (permalink)
paulmc is looking for more power 750-800bhp is not enough
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Awesome. 8500rpm must sound intoxicating. Cant beat a screaming engine.
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Old 21st September 2018, 04:14 PM   #34 (permalink)
charles charlie is chasing a Veyron from 30-130mph
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Workflow of tuned cars....

1. Build it.
2. Drive it.
3. Break it.
4. Go to 1.

Looking ace so far though Mart
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Old 21st September 2018, 08:59 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Great update, 926hp at 1.5bar and 8500rpm awesome
Cheers Tin. Can't wait to try it out! My 'final' tune will be this one:




1056BHP / 846whp / 703.4 lbs ft

Whist this is the 'final' map I will take the car and drive it for a bit. This should give everything (mostly the turbos) time to settle and then I will bring the car back to Litchfield for my Russ Fellows exhaust to be refitted (big Silencers are over rated after all...) and then Iain intends to spend a bit of time playing with the tune again to try and make the spool up even better and flatten the curve in the mid range. The top end looks great to me. I don't need any more power up there (erm, caveat wording: as it stands)

I was going to leave the MASSIVE image in but I couldn't bring myself to do it. Let me know if you would rather the big one and I can pop it in. Tin, thanks for the link to the other site with more control over image size. I had a look and quickly realised I was a lazy imbecile.


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Great thread and write up.

Sorry to hear about the gearbox. But better finding out the issues in a safe environment and getting it fixed before it comes home.

Best of.
Thanks. You're absolutely right. It probably would have been quite easy to ignore / miss on the road so it happening there was the very best thing to have happened. I will update shortly but there is zero additional damage as a result if Iain's quick actions.



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Nice wright up, i was thinking tho isn't it best to get a gearset chucked in when running so much power? and even tho having 1000bhp, having to cap the torque is a bit of a bitch??

"Dodson Extreme first gear and shaft, uprated Syncros." will this cut it long term at that power, as 700lb/ft is still a lot on a stock gearbox!
You're probably right but you also know first hand how it works. You'd like X but only Y is feasible at that given moment in time. I have spec'd my box over time to resemble something like the Shep 2.5 / Jack drag 800. I haven't skimped although I also haven't gone nuts and thrown the catalogue at it, as much as I might have liked to. This is a rich mans game and I'm far further from that position than I'd like to be. (Ironically probably because I own a GT-R )

I've been as open on this thread and explained my choices as it may help others in future when making their own choices. I was (and still am) a believer that my box spec should be good for 700lbs.


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Originally Posted by AnEvoGuy View Post
Really enjoying the thread. I hope it’s a cheap fix!
Cheers. It's looking like it might be

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Awesome. 8500rpm must sound intoxicating. Cant beat a screaming engine.

Oh YES! Even with a quiet exhaust fitted. I have an in cockpit video clip although not quite figured out how to host it short of popping on You tube.



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Workflow of tuned cars....

1. Build it.
2. Drive it.
3. Break it.
4. Go to 1.

Looking ace so far though Mart
Cheers Andy. Haha so true! Sadly I missed step 2 this time around!
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Last edited by gtr mart; 21st September 2018 at 09:11 PM..
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Old 21st September 2018, 09:28 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Very quick update. After all, this wine I have here isn't going to drink itself

It's been a good day although I won't have my car back until after the weekend. So will miss Jap Show Finale which is a shame.

However, the Litchfield guys have spent the day looking at the car and inspecting the box. The initial inspections didn't show anything bad up. In fact all oil and everything looked good. The OEM 2 - 6 are in good order!


They put everything back together and carefully drove the car on the dyno. No problems evident. Took it for a careful spin on the road and found in 3rd on with a little load the slight vibration came back. Some debate amongst themselves got down to it either being the rear diff or the output gears. Great! So far the stock drive gears are good for 700lbs (730 lbs actually based on the penultimate run). However I wouldn't want to push it! So the final tune will be circa 700lbs only

The box was taken out for further inspection and ever so slight pitting / delamination was found on one of the output gears. No other damage or debris anywhere so a good early save. So literally caught it before the gear broke. I have a video of the gear and it looks great other than this pitting. If I can work out how to post vids I will pop it up. Great work Iain Litchfield! So should be an easy fix. Whilst the box is out, Luke at Litchfield will be inspecting the ETS and re-checking tolerances and also the rear diff to make sure all in good shape (again, I believe the rear diff oil was in pristine condition so should be ok).


It's expense and hassle I could have done without but I'm so glad it happened there and then and shouldn't turn out to be a huge expense. Why did it happen? I guess we won't know for sure but I'd hazard a guess it was a combo of age, probably too many launches, probably too much wheel hop (drag strip) and also 8000+ rpm. All compounded by the power increase. Something to consider if anyone does a similar build and elects for a higher RPM. Once I have the car back I will be confident that I am sorted in this respect.



I've also done a quick edit on my previous update as I felt I hadn't been clear enough on the bit about intercooler/inlet temps. I said my inlet temps were close to 60 degrees. This isn't ideal and not something that would be ok on the road. I believe Litchfield would normally look for something closer to 40 degrees.

A temp like that on the road would trigger a safeguard, or at least a warning. In this instance as the temps could be closely monitored and the fact the car was on the dyno it was ok. It wasn't seen as representative of what would happen on the road though and I would hate for someone to take from my prior update that 60 degrees was the norm.

I've added this bit on for anyone that had already read the update - I will delete this in a week or so and just leave the updated text.
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Last edited by gtr mart; 21st September 2018 at 09:59 PM..
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Old 21st September 2018, 09:37 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Great write up modifying is never an easy road but when it all comes together its brilliant. Hope your on the road soon enjoying your car
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Old 21st September 2018, 10:03 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Great write up modifying is never an easy road but when it all comes together its brilliant. Hope your on the road soon enjoying your car
Cheers Derek. You just changed from ETS street to Race. Do you know what your inlet temps are? I presume this was a reason for the change? I guess you didn't have any additional shrouding or boxing to aid airflow though?
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Old 21st September 2018, 10:22 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Here is the difference between street and race intercooler. Two runs on street then 3 runs on race over quarter mile. Red , pink, blue runs on race
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Old 23rd September 2018, 01:13 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Here is the difference between street and race intercooler. Two runs on street then 3 runs on race over quarter mile. Red , pink, blue runs on race

That's good data and shows the stability the race gives. Got to be worth some power when pushing it too, as well as just generally being better for the engine.

I will try and log some similar data and then compare against your plots. See what difference my lower boost and also the ducting has. If it stays within the 40's on a full blooded run then that will be a result. Mind you I plotted my new power curve onto my stage 4.25 one and already started thinking how nice 800lbs would be. I've not even driven it yet. What a joke! It really does never end does it!


What's that plot from? Straightforward Ecutek output?
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