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-   -   Moby Dick 2.0; initial brainstorming (https://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/564149-moby-dick-2-0-initial-brainstorming.html)

kismetcapitan 24th September 2018 03:05 AM

Moby Dick 2.0; initial brainstorming
 
some of you old timers may recall my R32 GTR, called Moby Dick for several salient reasons. I had to sell it on in 2011 but now have a keen desire to do another R32, spurred on by seeing the new widebody kit by Garage Active.

So I'm thinking, start with a shell, add the widebody kit, and then....a fully modernised R32, built using whatever the latest technologies are available and can be reasonably integrated into the car. It'd need to be fully streetable yet ready for track days.

- Turbo: so apparently the GTX3582 single is the latest and greatest? I don't want to muck around with twins again; I only did the first time around because I wanted to keep the two components of the engine that were used on the Group A car - the FMIC and the exhaust manifolds.

- twincharging? I've been looking at how the Lancia Delta S4 Stradale is boosted. Not straightforward but supercharging and turbocharging isn't as complicated as I thought it'd be.....

- the short block: are RB30s still a popular option, or are there compromises? I'd also consider sleeving the block, as I'd really like to put together a bulletproof motor.

- ECU. Given the rapid advancement of computer technology, who makes a complete standalone ECU that works seamlessly with the R32? Are modern features such as launch control or traction control available?

- transmission. I'll want to do a sequential - PPG, so I can flat shift. It's how motorcycles work these days; it'd be nice to have a car that shifts clutchlessly and only requires the clutch from a dead stop or carpark maneuvering.

- LCD dash. Surely there must be some customizable LCD dash, so that I don't have to have 13 gauges littered all over the dash again...

Any other ideas? :)

I'm ready to dive down the rabbit hole again!

muzzer2002 24th September 2018 10:56 AM

welcome back buddy i remember the fun of your r32 and the -5 turbos which enticed me to go down that route


things sure have moved on and continue to move on

ecu wise you are spoiled for choice now adays and at quite reasonable prices too

lcd dash wise

there are a few good choices out there
i have went for the ecumaster adu 7 as i can design the layouts / pages as i want but there is also the aim strada which i belive is customizable too

JapFreak786 24th September 2018 10:58 AM

Welcome back!

lightspeed 24th September 2018 11:06 AM

Watch the MotiveDVD videos on YouTube for inspiration.

Haltech is the ecu of choice downunder.

Loads of dashes these days.

Norris Designs are successfully twincharging 4G63. Sure a nice Harrow could fit where the AC pump goes.

AlexJ 24th September 2018 01:33 PM

This sounds like a £100k build!

- Turbo: GTX3582 is old hat already, look at the EFR 8374 or 9178 for big displacement, external gate, twinscroll.

- the short block: Cool kids are doing RB32s and RB34s from Spool and Nitto etc.

- ECU. If you are spending this kind of money Motec M1 series with all the options. Otherwise top of the range Syvecs, Haltech, Link and a hotshot tuner to go with it.

- transmission. PPG do look good but GBP exchange rate isn't favourable, something like £15000 fitted. Approaching used Holinger money.

- LCD dash. Motec's top of the range is the best dash I've seen, £5000 iirc.

kismetcapitan 26th September 2018 06:38 AM

wow, the more research I do....the R32 stopped production in 1994 and there's STILL development on the car.

- twinscroll single, dual external wastegates and screamer pipes.

- RB32 kits seem pretty reasonably priced.

- ECUs now have everything I hoped to have: launch control, traction control, and flat shifting. Plus digital customizable dashes!!

- definitely will go with a sequential, and choose gearing similar to mating an R34 Getrag to R32 diffs (the secret sauce in the old Mines ultimate response R34). Not interested in top speed at all.

- those MotiveDVD youtube clips are recent and damned if they aren't detailed.

- I will use a Tomei oil pump again.

- I also plan to use the same surface-gap spark plugs that solved fouling and spark blowout the first time around. Surface-gap also eliminates the spark plug tip as a potential preignition point and it can't break off. Didn't know that the new ignition upgrade is using R35 coilpacks. I guess no Splitfires this time!

- Not sure how I'll rig the tank side of the fuel system, but I'll use Bosch 044s and feed both ends of the fuel rail, with CHECKVALVES at both ends. When I did this, one pump could fail and I still had enough fuel pressure to make it home on low boost. 044s are noisy however; I wonder how well they'd hold up outside, under the car?

- RC Racing injectors - they worked so well the last time.

I'm still thinking of twincharging but will not give up A/C for it. I wonder if an electric power steering rack could be made to fit? The hydraulic power steering pump sure takes up a lot of room. Also, removing the power steering cooling radiator is not recommended. Nothing terrible happened when I did it, but it definitely felt much different when the power steering fluid got too hot.

Weren't companies working on electrically boosted turbos a few years ago?

Bennyboy1984 26th September 2018 07:37 AM

:bowdown1: I’ve been waiting to see if someone would ever give a go at twincharging an RB. Always loved the little Super-March Nissan made years ago :chuckle:.
Just hope there’s enough room in the engine bay for such concoction.

If you’re not already watching their videos, the guys at Haltech Heroes May be able to provide some inspiration if you choose to go another route. They’re still keeping the RB alive and moving with the times :clap::clap:

https://youtu.be/1eHQuTCdjdQ

lightspeed 26th September 2018 10:53 AM

Twin 044’s in the spare wheel well running pwm. Sytec dash 6 non returns in BMRS Teflon hoses. Seal up all holes in firewall, perfectly acceptable pump noise.

Spare is a waste of space with big brakes.

kismetcapitan 26th September 2018 05:38 PM

fly-by-wire throttles! On a 1989 car!

Every vehicle I own now is fly-by-wire so it makes sense. No more fiddling with the idle adjustment with a screwdriver I suppose!

kismetcapitan 26th September 2018 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightspeed (Post 5744931)
Twin 044ís in the spare wheel well running pwm. Sytec dash 6 non returns in BMRS Teflon hoses. Seal up all holes in firewall, perfectly acceptable pump noise.

Spare is a waste of space with big brakes.

in my last R32, I turned the spare tire well into a subwoofer enclosure. I strongly doubt I will even put a stereo at all, so the spare will probably used for the fuel system.

Oh! And an Accusump reservoir. Adding one to my last car meant that I needed 9.5 liters of oil for an oil change, but that, plus an extended sump, meant that I never, ever ran into oil starvation and never spun a bearing - a lesson learnt after I put in a JUN oil pump with the stock sump (albeit with Tomei baffles).

One important thing is to have the oil drain plug completely shielded from ground impacts. I hit something in 2010 and it knocked the plug loose, which was very inconvenient, having a massive puddle of oil on the ground and getting a tow. This should be a normal thing; William Dunlop died this summer because his bike bottomed out (a fairly normal occurrence in road racing) and the oil drain plug was broken off, spilling oil onto his rear tire and sending him off fatally into a tree.

tarmac terror 26th September 2018 07:20 PM

Welcome back!!

It surprises me that you are willing to spend big on certain things but are happy to retain a wet sump system, Tomei pump or not!! For not much more money than a Tomei pump a competent tuner could get you all the necessary parts for dry sump. That's the way im going to eliminate issues once and for all!!

TT

Cris 26th September 2018 09:27 PM

If you are going to go crazy why bother with an RB. As has been seen downunder VHs will fit with a gearbox adapter. Swap the 41 crank for a 45 crank and you'll have a bigger engine than even the biggest RB with an ally block and two extra cylinders.

matt j 27th September 2018 04:37 AM

All sounds very familiar for me...

Dry sump system
Stroked Step 3 RB28
Dual fuel rails and 12 injectors
Direct port nitrous system (Dry)
Big Single Hybrid Turbo
Drive-By-Wire throttle control
Holinger GTR6 Sequential Gearbox with custom ratios
Shiftec Pneumatic Air Shift - with paddles for clutchless up and down shifts
MoTeC M800 ECU with all options
MoTeC C127 Dash (playing with the software now making my own custom screens)
Plus a whole lot more!

The biggest issue you will have IMHO is finding someone you can trust to set it all up for you but I wish you good luck if you decide to build one :)

rmiguelcar 27th September 2018 11:10 AM

Full interior with rear seats and AC?

Intergrate made a twin turbo G25 RB28 and looks really fine. It depends on the budget.

Lith 27th September 2018 10:26 PM

Just a heads up on the MotiveDVD car with the GTX3582R - they are sponsored by Garrett, they didn't go through an extensive process looking for the best of the best but have to imply that they've got the best. The GTX3582R and the EFR8374 actually came out around about the same time, but the EFR8374 is a bit more "big dog" in terms of outright performance.

This is where things get more interesting, though - what time frame are you looking at? Can I suggest buying the turbo last? I would guess that within 6 months the entire Garrett G-series range will be announced, if not available.... and that is likely to be Garretts attempt to bring "the best of the best" and could be a good match or one-up to the EFR range.

The EFR8374 has now been on the market for ~8 years, the Gen2 GTX3582R is much more recent but is arguably not as "well rounded" as the Gen1 GTX3582R.... an important thing to nail down is the power target and budget/packaging limitations.

lightspeed 28th September 2018 12:33 PM

Quote:

I’ve been waiting to see if someone would ever give a go at twincharging an RB.
Trust/Greddy did it on one of their demo cars (R32) many years back. But they used a rotrex type centrifugal charger with T78 turbo. Pretty pointless, you need a rooted type positive displacement charger to fill in the bottom end. Simon Norris is selling what looks like an impressive kit for 4g63’s.

moleman 28th September 2018 01:48 PM

1 Attachment(s)
:smokin:

Bennyboy1984 28th September 2018 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightspeed (Post 5745329)
Trust/Greddy did it on one of their demo cars (R32) many years back. But they used a rotrex type centrifugal charger with T78 turbo. Pretty pointless, you need a rooted type positive displacement charger to fill in the bottom end. Simon Norris is selling what looks like an impressive kit for 4g63's.

Wow never knew anyone had tried it before, shame they couldn't pull it off and create their own kit. Would've been fun having all that torque below 4k rpms...

rmiguelcar 28th September 2018 02:16 PM

Would be cool to use fueltech ecu and a twin turbo kit just for the difference.

lightspeed 28th September 2018 04:57 PM

https://usedcarnews.jp/archives/14554


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