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Old 16th May 2019, 02:33 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Question Power steering fluid cooler options

Hi guys,

I'm trying to get my car ready for a trip to the Ring and one of the things I came across while browsing the forum was that the PAS fluid has a tendency to get hot and even boil.

I see that Forge makes a cooler kit, but I haven't seen any from other manufacturers. I was also wondering about retrofitting a cooler from a different car. I found one that is for a few different VW group vehicles and they are relatively inexpensive (~£80). Looks like it should perform better than the OEM tube and fin cooler and possibly even the Forge?

Doesn't bar and plate reduce heat soak compared to tube and fin?

I'd also like to fit a temperature sensor somewhere and have some way of displaying the value...
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File Type: jpg FMGTR35PAS__16792.1459191315.jpg (16.6 KB, 4 views)
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Old 16th May 2019, 02:44 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Probably worth speaking to Iain Litchfield as he does lots of product testing at the Ring with a GTR, he will be able to tell you if a cooler is needed,
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Old 16th May 2019, 02:54 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Based on reading other drivers' experiences on here I have already accepted that I need an upgrade, for example:

https://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/460529-t...ml#post4815145
https://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/236514-p...ml#post2466946

Just looking to see what options are out there...
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Old 16th May 2019, 06:42 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Smile

Well, it turns out that when searching the net for power steering coolers, it is actually more helpful to search for transmission coolers instead...

I came across a couple of products by Mishimoto:

https://www.mishimoto.co.uk/automoti...html?limit=all
  • MMTC-U - Universal Transmission Cooler and Power Steering Cooler, ~£60
  • MSHMMTC-TF-1275 - Universal Transmission Cooler, ~£35.

They both have the same 3/8" push-on fittings, but after I measured the available space, I realised it would be a very tight fit horizontally for the MMTC-U. Perhaps this is why I have seen photos of them mounted diagonally.

The MSHMMTC-TF-1275 however will fit like a glove and is around half the price of the MMTC-U, much cheaper than the Forge offering, while being around twice its size and roughly three times the size of the OEM part. No boiling steering fluid ruining my trip to the Ring! Should one worry that its name does not include power steering? Not according to the description:

Quote:
Mishimoto universal fluid coolers are applicable for use with transmission fluid, engine oil, power steering fluid, and a variety of other automotive fluids.
They also come with the exact same items in the box.

I don't think either of these products will fit with a full-size race intercooler, but with the stock IC this is no problem. For only £35, I'm happy to revisit in the future if I ever need the space.

From what I have read, while a bar and plate cooler is more effective, it also more restrictive, so putting one directly in front of the radiator is possibly not a good idea. Having said that, I think most FMIC are bar and plate, so meh.

In terms of fitment, I reckon I can modify the OEM cooler brackets to fit the new cooler, possibly having to drill some new holes, but that's about it.

I'll upload pics post-install.
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File Type: jpg mshmmtc-tf-12752.jpg (20.7 KB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg mshmmtc-tf-12753.jpg (9.4 KB, 27 views)
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Old 31st May 2019, 11:18 AM   #5 (permalink)
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A bit of an upgrade...
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Old 31st May 2019, 08:44 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I have one being made and will be available as a kit but will be far more efficient bar and plate style. as well as a new funky oil cooler supposedly 30% more efficient .
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Old 31st May 2019, 09:10 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I have a bar and plate one on mine to original dimensions.
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Old 1st June 2019, 12:29 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Subscribed. Would love to see how this works out
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Old 1st June 2019, 07:24 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Should be easy fit, just wondering how much air will actually reach the newer section of the cooler as the top grill opening is not very big.

Anyway,,good luck and keep us all posted with the outcome. It may turn out to be a decent upgrade for just a few quid.
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Old 1st June 2019, 08:07 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dudersvr View Post
I have one being made and will be available as a kit but will be far more efficient bar and plate style. as well as a new funky oil cooler supposedly 30% more efficient .
Interested in the oil cooler. Real world date to back up 30%?
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Old 3rd June 2019, 02:29 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Old 3rd June 2019, 03:50 PM   #12 (permalink)
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We did the radiator swap yesterday and I can report that the huge power steering cooler does indeed fit with the stock shroud. I'll be modifying the shroud for the transmission cooler, which may also provide more airflow to the new steering cooler.

I actually think now that it may fit with a full-size FMIC; it should slot into the gap between the IC and the radiator created by the different mounting angles (radiator is vertical, stock IC is mounted at an angle). Not sure what angle race ICs are mounted at, or if there is a gap. If not, a bar and plate would be the better alternative...

I don't think I would use this cooler if I wasn't already changing the radiator, since getting to that location requires removing everything between the number plate and the rad. If a bar and plate can be fitted without doing all that disassembly, that's a huge advantage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocT View Post
Interested in the oil cooler. Real world date to back up 30%?
I had ordered a HEL Performance cooler with three additional rows over the OEM, but now I've had a chance to get the bumper off and look behind it, I've sent that back and gone for a Setrab 34-row cooler instead. It'll require some custom work to get it fitted, but nothing too hard. I'm enjoying this DIY project, even though the car is likely to be off the road for the next couple of weeks till while I continue to measure up, order and fit parts etc. It's keeping my wife and I busy until we can get back on our snowboards!

Not sure what the 30% relates to, if for example previous engine peak temperature of 110c becomes 77c, that would certainly be most impressive. I've seen some reviews that the Setrab coolers yield around 10c cooler temps, which also sounds decent. They're said to be the best liquid to air coolers in the world, and yet it was considerably cheaper than the HEL, because no 'GT-R' in the product title, lol.
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Old 5th June 2019, 09:27 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m1ac_drew View Post
A bit of an upgrade...
A tube and fin is not the most efficient type of cooler, a bar and plate woul;d be far smaller just as efficient and not block off as much air flow to ac and water radiators.
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Old 5th June 2019, 09:33 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DocT View Post
Interested in the oil cooler. Real world date to back up 30%?
I would imagine the manufacturer would have a bench test, the core of the cooler is slightly thicker and bigger in all dimensions but fits in the original location , it has dash fittings converting to oem flange so a twin cooler system can be fitted using a mirror image cooler on the passenger side, not all cooler cores are created equal
I dont believe 30% more efficient will mean a 30% drop in temp more so it will peak at whatever it peaks at but not rise higher, ive seen 120 plus and rising on the stock cooler.
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Old 5th June 2019, 11:58 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dudersvr View Post
A tube and fin is not the most efficient type of cooler, a bar and plate woul;d be far smaller just as efficient and not block off as much air flow to ac and water radiators.
Definitely agree that tube and fin is less efficient than bar and plate, but not necessarily less effective, depending on the application.

To achieve similar levels of cooling a tube and fin cooler must occupy more space; for my use-case, this is not a problem since there is abundant space for it.

The fins on this cooler are less restrictive than the stock steering cooler and although it will dissipate more heat overall in front of the radiator, this will be distributed over a larger proportion of the radiator's surface, i.e. less heat per square cm/inch than either stock or a bar and plate. The smaller and more efficient the cooler, the hotter the hotspot directly behind it; this was also a factor in my decision since the cooler is directly attached to the aircon rad.

The £35 price was a huge plus and since I had to take the front end off anyway, it has worked out brilliantly for me. I wouldn't recommend it for everyone.
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Old 1st September 2019, 08:51 PM   #16 (permalink)
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All plumbed in, just need to fab some brackets for it:

20190901_194128_1567371049046.jpg
20190901_194132_1567371063015.jpg
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Old 2nd September 2019, 11:05 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Im just having a bar and plate one made, I would anticipate the PAS cooler would be pretty cheap.
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Old 2nd September 2019, 12:20 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Cool, would be interested in seeing it once fitted.
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Old 15th September 2019, 08:52 PM   #19 (permalink)
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A bit late, it's already fitted, lol
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Old 14th October 2019, 08:56 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Now fully-fitted. Required me to drill two holes in the bottom of the bar above it and the rest I riveted. Quite conveniently, there were already holes in the right places in the top of the bar, so I was able to drill through them rather than from underneath.

20191013_171514_1571043083846.jpg

I took the car out for first proper trials last night and so far so good...
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