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Old 26th March 2007, 04:17 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Fueling: R32 GTR 1.5bar 2860-5's

Been following Kismet's and pikette's fueling issues with similar spec cars and i'm trying to work out what to do with the fueling on my car now.

It has std pump/injectors/FPR/lines and rails just now.

The car will have the following spec in the next week or so.

RB26DETT
86.5mm OS Giken pistons
tomei rod bolts
Tomei 1.2mm HG
Garret 2860-5's
Mines Stage1 ECU.

At the moment the only fueling upgrade will be a Tomei FPR. I'm not wanting to afford to run 1.5bar just yet.... but will start buying the parts in readyness for the time. (i'll run aprox 1bar on above if proved safe)

So....

Will 1x 280lph intank pump, tomei FPR and 700cc injectors (on R32 GTR lines) be enough to fuel my car at 1.5bar. If so... any idea on how stressed/what duty?

NB - a PFC or Fcon Pro will be fitted at the fueling upgrade point.

Does anyone have any ideas as to what would be the best solution? Twin in tank, 1 intank, swirl and 2x pumps etc? Bigger Injectors?

Any responses greatly appreciated
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Old 26th March 2007, 05:02 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I'd strongly suggest *not* running the car until you've done the fuel system. Even with the wastegates set open, the 2860-5s always manage to pull 1 bar of boost, lots of air swishing through the system. And 1 bar on 2860-5s feels like a lot more boost than 1 bar on stock turbos.

injectors are a must. I did 700cc but I'd rather have done 1000cc to have all the headroom I could possibly need.

If you don't replace the stock pump, you'll kill it with the extra demand you place upon it. When I killed mine, it killed all six pistons in revenge.

I've seen some 2530 cars with stock rail, some with aftermarket. Mines did their R32 and R34 with stock rails. I think the Z-tune has a single pump, so I'm baffled as to why Pete and I seem to end up needing two.

You'll need Z32 afms - the stock ones won't keep up with the 2860-5s. Hell, they barely kept up with my stock turbos at the boost I ran them at.

Hopefully, you'll have more luck with your fueling setup than I have!
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Old 26th March 2007, 05:47 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Hi Adam,

FYI - You will need to change the ECU and remap as soon as you fit the turbos as they will flow a different amount of air at the different boost levels - ie. 1 bar on these turbos is MILES more than 1 bar on std turbos...
You definatly dont want to run the car without a remap or you will have AFR's that are nowhere near right !!

Also the setup you have above will need definatly need uprated parts to make the most of the turbos, im waiting to see this week if i really need a 2nd pump in the tank too (it may still be an FPR issue)

depending on where you are going in the future should tell you what is required now..

if it is only 550bhp tops then you can keep everything std apart from the FPR, injectors and the pump.
Basically get a tomei 280l/h pump in the tank (direct replacement), get an adjustable nismo FPR (i have a spare for sale) and get 700cc injectors
The STD rail and the lines will still be ok at that power (550hp)

if its the same as us you are aiming for (600hp+) then i would suggest getting uprated fuel lines/FPR/rail/injectors/2xpump in-tank fitted.
This way the fuel setup will have more than enough and not be running on the edge - 1 x 280ltr/h pump will be pushed at full power to deliver the fuel where as 2 pumps will halve the effort required and if 1 fails, the other pump should be enough to cope with all the load on its own so it doesnt destroy your engine...

also I dont think you need to have a swirl pot unless you are going for external pumps (ie twin 044's) - I went for the internal tomei pumps as they dont make lots of noise and i dont like the idea of a swirl pot in the boot in case of any rear end accident

hope this helps,

Pete
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Old 26th March 2007, 05:50 PM   #4 (permalink)
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also as toby said the AFMS will need uprating - z32's or nismos are fine..

also do you have an uprated clutch and brakes ? ~ You will need them to take the extra power for sure....
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Old 26th March 2007, 05:55 PM   #5 (permalink)
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i still thought the AFM's and fueling would be ok at 1bar :/
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Old 26th March 2007, 06:10 PM   #6 (permalink)
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AFM's at 1 bar will be fine but the fuelling and ECU will need a remap for definate !
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Old 26th March 2007, 08:22 PM   #7 (permalink)
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going to hook ito up to a wideband and do a run on the rollers too to see what the fueling it like...

BUT

basically the point of the post is to see what is needed to fuel the car in the future. say for 1.6 bar max (peak efficinecy of -5's are around 1.5bar yes?)

What boost are you guys seeing your problems develop?
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Old 27th March 2007, 01:21 AM   #8 (permalink)
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1.4 bar for me was where the drops were but hopefully will have the issues resolved in the next day or so...will post what the glitch was when i get it back.

if you are going for 1.6 bar like me then id say get the bigger lines, rail, fpr, injectors and (depending on the cause of the pressure drop) either 1 or 2 tomei pumps in the tank

this will see you with plenty of scope for future tuning too.

As for the peak efficiency on these turbos, i think it is higher than 1.5 bar tbh but if you take it to 650bhp then you are going to have to spend £££££'s on a gearbox as the std ones dont really like much more than 600
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Old 27th March 2007, 01:28 PM   #9 (permalink)
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ok....

i think i'll go for this setup first....

Tomei 280lph intank
Nismo AFM's
Tomei FPR
800cc injectors (or 700)

std fuel rail, and lines should surfice.



I think i'll prob run it at around 1.4bar on track..... maybe 1.3...

Not just after big unsustainable figures, or quick 1/4mile runs.

If i take it on the 1/4 i'll run 1.5 or so
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Old 27th March 2007, 01:49 PM   #10 (permalink)
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at 1 bar boost, you weren't getting a fuel pressure drop? IIRC, my problem was strictly RPM based - although, lowering boost is, well, hard for me to do, even for a moment :P

I personally would like to see 1.8 or even 2.0 bar. We'll see though - an expert will see what he can do with my tune.
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Old 27th March 2007, 02:15 PM   #11 (permalink)
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2.0bar on those turbo's will just making heat wont it :/
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Old 27th March 2007, 03:35 PM   #12 (permalink)
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where is max efficiency then? I can't read the turbo chart for the life of me...1.7? 1.8? I will be running water/alcohol injection at the highest boost levels.
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Old 27th March 2007, 04:27 PM   #13 (permalink)
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looking at injectors just now....

Power eterprises 700cc and 800cc twinhole..

twinhole? Whats that then?

Any bad info about the above make? Or any recomedations for other 700cc injectors?
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Old 27th March 2007, 05:46 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I went for 750cc RC injectors from RB Motorsport - they were reasonably priced IIRC
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Old 27th March 2007, 06:11 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Car

Adam i saw your engine today in Marc`s, looks like your getting a bit of work done.. Will be good to get a pax lap in it when its all done....
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Old 27th March 2007, 06:31 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Were the new pistons there?

i'm needing it all done, and run in for the 6th LoL.... na.... not bothered about the track eve on the 6th but have a day booked at Brands on the 11th... so would like to get it back, run in.... oil change, run on rollers to check fueling and then down south!

Its going to be one hell of a track as we have decided to just drive it down :O No interior, 12kgmm springs and all the spares in the boot/back (includign slicks)

PUMPS: Do Tomei do a 280, or is it the 276lph pump that people refer to as being the 280?
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Old 27th March 2007, 06:54 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Pump

I think Marc was taking about OSG pistons but he also mentioned Greddy ones so not to sure m8.. The fuel pump was really a piece of piss to fit once the rear metal panel had been removed from the R33 boot space. Im sure my Tomei was down as a 280 but doesnt bother me if it is 276..Are you going for the Tomei?
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Old 27th March 2007, 11:38 PM   #18 (permalink)
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rod bell specced 720cc injectors for my rb30 with 28/60-7's, and we'll be running 1.5 bar when run in, also tomei fuel pump, standard rail, pfc dJetro so no afm's, so 720 should suffice?

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Old 28th March 2007, 12:09 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Gavman - can you remember the cost of the injectors?
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Old 28th March 2007, 02:53 AM   #20 (permalink)
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£85 each?
first set were sard 700cc from envy, they went missing during garage going bust scenario, so RB got some 720cc's in, nismo i believe, and they were about the same money roughly
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