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Old 17th November 2007, 12:54 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by King Nismo View Post
"The Nissan GT-R powerplant is derived both from Nissan's Racing V8 engines and the extremely successful VQ series engines. In essence it is a modern day hybrid of racing technologies, and proven reliability."

So I was right? for me! I guess the information really won't hit the fan until the car comes out nex month in Japan. Bonzelite...as you can see I am TRYING to get used to this new GT-R. I don't bash the car like I did in the past but I am new to the V6 configuration. So about 60 degree this and that I don't have a much knowledge. Yes I understand what 60 degree means common sense tells me that but about the bank etc I will pass. I still believe someday someone will slap an RB26 in there..and I can't wait until that day comes. Something I know about and is easy to figure out. Also where are people getting their information from because everytime I post I get told it is wrong.
Evidently yes, mostly. VQ influence exists in the VR38DETT, as has been clearly stated and qualified.

But I have been repeatedly flamed for making the claims insofar as 1) R35 has entirely new engine platform and 2) there is influence from a V8 origin -- even though these ideas are making much more sense.

IF the VR38DETT is outright VQ-based, then where is the Q? Huh?

Nowhere in the VR38DETT code appears a Q. Where is it?

In VRH there is the ancestory/vestigial H remaining to designate it's origins, ie, the VH.

Moreover, the VQ series engines are so famous and strong and well-known, were the VR38DETT directly descended from the VQ, you'd see a Q vestigial coding in the NEW R35 engine.

But Q is nowhere to be seen. Here are some logical codings that do not exist:

VRQ38DETT ---- nope
VQR38DETT -----nope

VQ38DETT ----nope
VQHR38DETT ---nope

Therefore, it is VR38DETT for a reason.

Nissan retains VR more than likely because of direct influence from an ancestoral engine platform. That is the only conclusion to be drawn. The R35 engine is not a VQ variant. Were it a VQ variant, that would have been trumpeted long and loudly in a VQ engine coding. And that does not exist in this case.

Did Nissan use VN? or VD? or VF? VQ? or anything but R? nope.

Why? They could have used any letter in the alphabet but chose R.

VRH 35-L ----> begets VR38DETT

that is the only conclusion unless there is no logic or meaning to Nissan's engine coding system.
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Old 17th November 2007, 03:25 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I thought nissan would have put a little beefed up version of the VQ in the new GT-R BEFORE all the information came to date. That was 1-4 years ago heck who didn't think that...I thought what the next guy thought...a twin turbo G35 coupe with AWD. I was hoping for that so the R34 can forever rain one of the best GT-Rs and the last REAL GT-R. I wanted Nissan to fail on this car greatly..have they done that? NO! Is it better than the R34 stock wise? YES! It still doesn't look better but it is a heck of a car (which I can't believe I am saying this right now) No where did I say it would have the exact same engine as the V8 in the 390 just in V6 config. read my post. I still don't fully understand this car but as I said I will when it comes out. This IS a brand new engine I don't think it is a bored out version of a VQ it might be I could be wrong. If its not then yes there should room for a stroker kit past 4L. The Z did it why can't the GT-R? I can't see Nissan letting that happen and some people may say its not about displacement I beg to differ. Just give it a few years this car will shine like no other! And it can start by cutting weight and a 6speed manual trans. BTW, why is it they can't do a 7spd manual?
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Old 17th November 2007, 07:49 PM   #23 (permalink)
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This either adds to the confusion of origin of the VR prefix code, or sheds light on the issue.

If the following info is true, then those claiming the VR38DETT has nothing to do with the VRH are incorrect. And will explain why Nissan carried the VR prefix --they did it for a specific reason as they could have used many other letters of the alphabet to designate the new GT-R engine --but they chose VR.

from:
VR38DETT Engine Overview - GT-R TECH : The Nissan GT-R Information Resource | GT-R Forums | GT-R Guides |

"The Nissan GT-R powerplant is derived both from Nissan's Racing V8 engines and the extremely successful VQ series engines. In essence it is a modern day hybrid of racing technologies, and proven reliability.Then engine is rated at 480 horsepower, although speculators believe this is severely underrated due to the recent performance of the GT-R on the famous Nurburgring. Being as heavy as the GT-R is, and performing like it does, the speculators are probably correct.

Settling on a twin turbo V6 configuration, Nissan has developed an amazing engine. Check back often for updates as we learn more about the heart of Godzilla."
It is not based off the old VR racing V8s...thats a rumor thats been around for a while now. Find one thing the two engines have in common and you may have some credability...but as far as I can tell it has NOTHING in common with the VR racing V8s.
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Old 17th November 2007, 08:28 PM   #24 (permalink)
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It is not based off the old VR racing V8s...thats a rumor thats been around for a while now. Find one thing the two engines have in common and you may have some credability...but as far as I can tell it has NOTHING in common with the VR racing V8s.
It's called a VR for a reason. Even if the engine is not literally blueprinted off the original blocks, it may very well be inspired by them, as is also true for some VQ influence as stated.

The engine --AS I HAVE MAINTAINED-- IS NOT A VQ. It is NEW as in DIFFERENT.

AS WELL, IT IS NOT CALLED "VQ".... ANYTHING.

AGAIN ----> THE VR38DETT IS NOT A VQ AND IS NOT A VARIANT OF THE VQ.
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Old 17th November 2007, 09:36 PM   #25 (permalink)
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It's called a VR for a reason. Even if the engine is not literally blueprinted off the original blocks, it may very well be inspired by them, as is also true for some VQ influence as stated.

The engine --AS I HAVE MAINTAINED-- IS NOT A VQ. It is NEW as in DIFFERENT.

AS WELL, IT IS NOT CALLED "VQ".... ANYTHING.

AGAIN ----> THE VR38DETT IS NOT A VQ AND IS NOT A VARIANT OF THE VQ.
It has A LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT more in common with the VQ then it does with the VR...it has NOTHING in common with the VR. Remember the VR V8s were just VH45s from the old Infiniti Q45s destroked with completley revised racing heads. You say you think its inspired by the racing VR engines....but with that inspiration what did they incorporate into the VR38??? I see nothing. Nissan never ONCE said it had ANYTHING to do with the older VR35HL, seems like just a coincidence that they are both designated VR to me. The VR35HL was never even a production engine.

I will agree the VR38 is NOT a VQ....but it is also NOT based off of, inspired by, or a variant of any sort of the older VR racing V8s...
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Old 17th November 2007, 09:55 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Shhhtop. Shhhtop. The engine has not been modified yet. When it is, all will be answered in time. There's little point beating our bollocks against our foreheads in the interim.



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Old 19th November 2007, 01:40 PM   #27 (permalink)
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"The Nissan GT-R powerplant is derived both from Nissan's Racing V8 engines and the extremely successful VQ series engines. In essence it is a modern day hybrid of racing technologies, and proven reliability."

The VR38DETT engine is essentially a clean sheet of paper design, roughly based on the VQ35 & 40 geometry/DNA but that is all......no V8 racing input, that is just marketing talk, although the engine project manager from Nissan did try and get us to adopt a "combustion concept" from the racing era...but we couldn't due to turbocharger sizing issues.

The engine design concept was ultimatley influenced by only a handfull of people, and without wanting to blow my own trumpet, I was one of the key people. As I said in previous comments, some ideas in the concept were NOT understood fully by the customer until recently!!!
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Old 19th November 2007, 04:44 PM   #28 (permalink)
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So is the engine stronger than the RB26 or what? Since there are 3 different blocks how can you know for sure if it is stronger? I say the GT block is still on its level if you ask me. But hey...if not I have be wrong before.
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Old 19th November 2007, 10:10 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Sorry for the hijack, but does anyone have anything I can use to reply to this statement about the new GTR engine:

"apparently its the same block bored out and twin turbo'd,and yes it is a renault engine"

The reference to the 'same block' is the 350 engine.

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Old 20th November 2007, 02:30 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wink View Post
"The Nissan GT-R powerplant is derived both from Nissan's Racing V8 engines and the extremely successful VQ series engines. In essence it is a modern day hybrid of racing technologies, and proven reliability."

The VR38DETT engine is essentially a clean sheet of paper design, roughly based on the VQ35 & 40 geometry/DNA but that is all......no V8 racing input, that is just marketing talk, although the engine project manager from Nissan did try and get us to adopt a "combustion concept" from the racing era...but we couldn't due to turbocharger sizing issues.

The engine design concept was ultimatley influenced by only a handfull of people, and without wanting to blow my own trumpet, I was one of the key people. As I said in previous comments, some ideas in the concept were NOT understood fully by the customer until recently!!!
Then VR code is pointless. wow.

Thanks for that info. I stand corrected in a big way.

(eats own foot and hat now)

The only thing true then was that it was a new engine from scratch.
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Old 20th November 2007, 03:22 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wink View Post
"The Nissan GT-R powerplant is derived both from Nissan's Racing V8 engines and the extremely successful VQ series engines. In essence it is a modern day hybrid of racing technologies, and proven reliability."

The VR38DETT engine is essentially a clean sheet of paper design, roughly based on the VQ35 & 40 geometry/DNA but that is all......no V8 racing input, that is just marketing talk, although the engine project manager from Nissan did try and get us to adopt a "combustion concept" from the racing era...but we couldn't due to turbocharger sizing issues.

The engine design concept was ultimatley influenced by only a handfull of people, and without wanting to blow my own trumpet, I was one of the key people. As I said in previous comments, some ideas in the concept were NOT understood fully by the customer until recently!!!
Wink....why don't you do a big write up for us about everything you know . I know we are all dieing to know the things you know and i'm sure you cold be promoted to permanent honorary member by diong so
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Old 20th November 2007, 05:19 AM   #32 (permalink)
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I DONT CARE THE GT BLOCK IS STILL MORE POWERFUL. Heavier but more powerful I am sure of it.
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Old 20th November 2007, 05:31 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Wink....why don't you do a big write up for us about everything you know . I know we are all dieing to know the things you know and i'm sure you cold be promoted to permanent honorary member by diong so
Good idea.

Not much is publicly known about the VR38's development. I'd love to know, too. Please tell more.
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Old 20th November 2007, 04:07 PM   #34 (permalink)
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I DONT CARE THE GT BLOCK IS STILL MORE POWERFUL. Heavier but more powerful I am sure of it.
GT Block???? The VR38 likely weighs less then the iron block RB26...
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Old 21st November 2007, 09:57 AM   #35 (permalink)
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"So is the engine stronger than the RB26 or what? Since there are 3 different blocks how can you know for sure if it is stronger? I say the GT block is still on its level if you ask me. But hey...if not I have be wrong before".

With regards to this engine, you can see all my threads, quite a bit of detail (there are obvious confidentiality issues ...but now it is in production... )

As said previously, the engine structure was optimised for a maximum of 600 bhp, it is not like the RB26 block and over engineered. Obviously these days over engineering the product adds weight and cost, and mass effects fuel economy and emissions...EU and ULEV2 emissions are difficult enough to achieve in the first place, hence you simply can not make it bigger than it needs to be these days!!! Nissan are saying this is an engine that should NOT be modified, and it does break if run much above 600 bhp - just the way it was designed!! Failure mechanisms are numerous, but the main area would be the plasma coating/piston/rings. That said, the big end bearing is on the limit too.

"apparently its the same block bored out and twin turbo'd,and yes it is a renault engine"

As I said, loads written on this already, but it is not a VQ35 block...this is diecast and deep skirted, the VR38DETT was designed to be sand cast (using the CosCast process) and is a ladder frame design. Design wise the VR38DETT block all different except for bore spacing, bank stagger and bolt spacing - is taller (deck height 244mm Vs 215mm), different cooling jacket (water jacket depth of 60mm, different layout), closed deck (VQ35 is open deck), long head bolts design, different oil gallary layout, bigger main bearings etc, etc, etc.
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Old 21st November 2007, 03:38 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Wink,

just because of what you just said. I strongly strongly believe that the RBs will go into the new GT-R. Think about it, the C6 Z06 block is the same way...most people go to the C5R iron block to make big power. I know smokey might get his hands dirty with this one haha. So from what you just told me the RB26 is a stronger engine? 600HP isn't alot the car is fast but now I am getting turned off with this car. I doubt I would be able to hand 800whp but the fact that I can someday live with it is a option. That isn't the case with this new VR38. So long new GT-R I think I will stick with the old GT-Rs at least engine wise. But I believe a company might come out with something. What is nissan saying the internals can't handle the power of the block itself?
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Old 21st November 2007, 04:14 PM   #37 (permalink)
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"I strongly strongly believe that the RBs will go into the new GT-R."...heh? You mean people may fit this engine afterwards, cos obviously Nissan won't fit it as it doesn't achieve ULEV2 emissions for a start.

With regards to the 600Bhp, I am talking about a genuine 600 Bhp at a stabilised compressor out temperature rather than a figure factored up off a rolling road......believe me when I say there is a BIG difference.

I'm sure the engine could be tuned to more than 600Bhp, but obviously to the detriment of engine life.

We had an R34 as a benchmark vehicle versus the first prototypes...around the track at Hethel the R35 simply blew the R34 away from an engine performance point of view...the dynamic response of the RB26 is very poor in comparison with the VR38 engine from a non-boosted (obviously as it is much higher capacity) and boosted point of view, with the VR38 delivering some boost from as low as 1400 rpm, and high levels of boost avalible from 1800 onwards....all the way to 7600 rpm on the development engines!
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Old 21st November 2007, 06:46 PM   #38 (permalink)
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So do you think what I wanted to do well thought about doing was a good idea? Swapping my RB for a VR38 in the R34? I want to do it because it is lighter I don't need that much power. I know the power of the car now 1200whp is stupid for a street car.
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Old 25th November 2007, 06:37 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Wink,

just because of what you just said. I strongly strongly believe that the RBs will go into the new GT-R. Think about it, the C6 Z06 block is the same way...most people go to the C5R iron block to make big power. I know smokey might get his hands dirty with this one haha. So from what you just told me the RB26 is a stronger engine? 600HP isn't alot the car is fast but now I am getting turned off with this car. I doubt I would be able to hand 800whp but the fact that I can someday live with it is a option. That isn't the case with this new VR38. So long new GT-R I think I will stick with the old GT-Rs at least engine wise. But I believe a company might come out with something. What is nissan saying the internals can't handle the power of the block itself?
Wink is saying that the VR38 was built to make a maximum of 600HP RELIABLY. The RB26 was NOT designed to make 600HP reliable from the factory....in fact 600HP is pushing the factory RB26 pistons to their upper limits. The upper limits of this VR38 engine should be higher then the RB26. The ONLY advantage the RB has over this new VR from a maximum power stand point is the iron construction, and that only comes to play at EXTREME power levels.
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Old 25th November 2007, 07:20 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Well you can laugh at them now! Nissan wouldn't stick a VQ in there. I want to see what the thing will be like here in the US. But hopefully it won't get into the wrong hands. Ricers or business men who know nothing about its history and just bought it because it was new car and it is fast won't even drive it over the speed limit kind of people. I think that is why I somewhat hate this car it will be left hand drive from the factory...aagh what a turn off. I looks so strange being left hand drive. I want to wait to see what happens...I don't care about the car I can about that engine. Personally I want to get my hands on a REAL 100% KPGC10 Hakosuka and swap a VR38 into it. Not sure if it will work but can't do a thing until it comes out. From one of the videos I saw...the car sounds a step up from the VQs in the 350Z and G35 coupe. Sounds a little louder and meaner but it does kind of sound like it which I was somewhat surprised...When I saw Carlos Ghosn driving it almost sounded like a stock RB. I guess we ALL have to wait until parts come out for the car.
Honestly the VR sounds so dam quiet for a haul azz engine and as for the ricer/granny drivers, I crap in their window J/K. Drive it like it was designed to driven, 175+ flippen every one off on the way to the track
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