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Old 10th November 2007, 12:28 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Nissan employee & VR38 engine details

"I had some Japanese people over for dinner last night including a guy who works for Nissan and is here on a 3 month business trip. He's not an engineer, but he works in project planning and marketing and said he's done some work on the GT-R project. Of course, this gave me an opportunity to ask a few questions about the new car.

Sorry if you guys already knew this stuff, but I figured some might find it interesting...

1) The new engine is hand-built (we already knew this). However, something interesting is he said there are only 12 guys on this team at Nissan. So it's a highly qualified and elite team of engine builders. I guess they must be pretty busy...

2) He said that the new engine is "sealed". Nissan absolutely positively does not want average Joe's messing with this motor, so they've sealed it in such a way that they can know if it's been tampered or modified by an unauthorized person in which case the warranty will be completely void.

3) He emphasized that the engine has been tuned much closer to its limits ("giri-giri") to achieve maximum performance vs. previous models which had more "tunability". In other words, engineers consider this motor to be quite strung-out, and are actually worried that it may "explode" (maybe he meant detonation?) if modified by the hands of unauthorized tuners. This wasn't to say that the motor doesn't still have more potential, just that Nissan more than ever wants to have control over this so that buyers don't start cranking up the boost, upgrading turbos, cams, etc.

4) I asked him what the general impression in Japan is so far about the car. He said that since nobody's driven it yet, there's pretty much just one word on the street about it: Expensive.

He didn't speak English so I'm not sure if anything was lost in translation. Frankly I couldn't think of any other questions since there's so much info on the Net already. I may play tennis with him this week, so if I think of anything else interesting to ask him I'll let you all know..."
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Old 10th November 2007, 12:56 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Thank you for your information but I think there is nothing new except the last one
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Old 10th November 2007, 05:44 PM   #3 (permalink)
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LOL dtp...hand around EVERYTIME OK? Sounds like I really need to stick with the old GT-Rs because I am just putting up repost!
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Old 12th November 2007, 06:36 AM   #4 (permalink)
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The people who really want to buy the GTR to modify it won't care about the warranty, they will modify it anyway. The few people who want to modify it and still keep the warranty will by Nismo products ($$$) which is fine. Just from what we know about the VR38s specifics it sounds like it will be a great engine to modify...so i'm not worried about that. We know it has a closed deck block, forged crank, forged rods, and strong cast pistons....it will take to boost just fine. This time around we have an extra 1.2L of displacement and MUCH better head flow over the RB26....so bigger turbos with less boost will make more power.
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Old 12th November 2007, 02:14 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Well it will be more than that im sure...1.2L extra displacement is just the start I KNOW for a fact a stroker kit will come out for it. 3.5L to 4.2L for the VQ35 is possible. maybe a 4.5L for this new engine? Yeah you are right you will have those who could care less about the warranty. I guess I will get ahold of one of those VR38s and see what I can do with it lol. Not a big fan of this new GT-R but I do like the car no doubt. I am just waiting on performance parts to come out for it first then I will be interested but my next GT-R I am searching for is a 72' KPGC10 so this new one will be on the back burner for a few years until support is very strong for it.
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Old 15th November 2007, 12:21 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Ask him if the VR is based on the V8 racing engine, adapted to V6, or the consumer level VQ V6 engine. They are using the VR code which is of a V8 origin.
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Old 15th November 2007, 04:44 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Yes it is based on that V8 in the 390.
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Old 15th November 2007, 08:36 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Ok cool.

I was certain, nearly certain it was, but when the R35 launched at the TMS there was all of this talk of "VQ bank angle and bore are retained on the VR from the VQ" --and then everyone began saying "seee!! it's VQ-based afterall!!"

And when I then said "No... bank angles for all V6s are the same... bore spacing doesn't mean anything but that they've spaced the bores the same as on the VQ --doesn't mean it's now suddenly a VQ engine."

People are so convinced of the VQ that they don't even believe it when you say it's not a VQ. This is what I have encountered on the American boards.

I even said for about a year prior to release that the R35 would unequivocally NOT have a VQ and I was laughed at.
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Old 15th November 2007, 10:21 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Well you can laugh at them now! Nissan wouldn't stick a VQ in there. I want to see what the thing will be like here in the US. But hopefully it won't get into the wrong hands. Ricers or business men who know nothing about its history and just bought it because it was new car and it is fast won't even drive it over the speed limit kind of people. I think that is why I somewhat hate this car it will be left hand drive from the factory...aagh what a turn off. I looks so strange being left hand drive. I want to wait to see what happens...I don't care about the car I can about that engine. Personally I want to get my hands on a REAL 100% KPGC10 Hakosuka and swap a VR38 into it. Not sure if it will work but can't do a thing until it comes out. From one of the videos I saw...the car sounds a step up from the VQs in the 350Z and G35 coupe. Sounds a little louder and meaner but it does kind of sound like it which I was somewhat surprised...When I saw Carlos Ghosn driving it almost sounded like a stock RB. I guess we ALL have to wait until parts come out for the car.
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Old 16th November 2007, 12:38 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Well, sure, going mainstream does somewhat dilute what was otherwise a cult/underground sort of phenomenon. I think the R35 is nice anyway, but I agree I'd rather it be RHD only, and I'm an American. I want a RHD R35, the proper way, with a manual stick shift, 6MT.
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Old 16th November 2007, 01:01 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Ha! Now we agree bonzelite! It does kind of kill it huh? I miss the GT-R being a underground type of car...makes my eyes water a little because of it being in the spot light too much now. American to American I also would rather have a RHD only with 6 speed manual. But...do you think some company out there will try to do a 6spd manual trans on their own someday? DSG is amazing for fast track days, everyday driving, and of course...for those who hate and can't drive a standard if their lives depended on it. The only thing I like about the new GT-R is the fact it can have ALL countries including the US mainly to make parts for the car. I know many say it is a good car stock but come on...5 years of waiting, a brand new car with a brand new engine I want to see what it can do. They say its new engine is more powerful than the RB26 you will have to prove that to me! I don't doubt it is for a split second but still. But until the car is a 6spd manual trans I will be in the dark...waiting...watching
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Old 16th November 2007, 10:28 AM   #12 (permalink)
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You guys.....

"KNOW for a fact a stroker kit will come out for it. 3.5L to 4.2L".

The VQ35 engine has a deck height of 215mm from memory, pretty much limiting it to 3.5L. The GTR engine has a deck height the same as the VQ40 (244mm) as the chain drive is carry over from that engine, and this enables the engine to achieve sufficient bay balance for a capacity of up to 3.8L only! The first two phases of the engine were 3.5L, but it was increased to 3.8L to improve off-boost launch, with main focus US market (who aren't so used to boosted cars). The reason why it can go to 4L despite having the same deck height as the VQ40 is the masses of the parts - the piston is much heavier (at over 600g), as is the rod, and the big and main bearing diameters are also much bigger than both the VQ35 and 40 to enable it to run at the high peak cylinder pressures associated with high levels of boosting. The main and big end bearings are 65 and 56mm in diameter respectively, and maximum peak cylinder pressure design limit is 115 bar.


"Yes it is based on that V8 in the 390".

Sorry, but this is just stupid. In the first phase the cylinder heads, chain drive, water pump and valvetrain were carry over VQ35, and everything else was new...although the water pump was speeded up by reducing the number of teeth on the water pump sprocket from 31 to 29. For the 2nd phase it was again all new and improved (even over the 1st concept engines), with new cylinder heads, etc, but NOTHING from the 390 engine!!! The only carry over parts are valve spring collets, and the water pump from the latest VQ35 engine, but speeded up again.


"And when I then said "No... bank angles for all V6s are the same... bore spacing doesn't mean anything but that they've spaced the bores the same as on the VQ --doesn't mean it's now suddenly a VQ engine."

Doh! Bank angles for V6 can be between 15 degrees (e.g. VW VR6), to 90 degrees (Rover KV6, Audi V6's etc). 60 degrees is used as this gives the best compromise between balance, package, etc whilst still enabling even firing. The R35 engine did not need to have the same bore spacing, bank stagger etc as the VQ35 engine, but Nissan wanted to carry over the VQ "DNA" as they say. The R35 engine is actually a bed plate design, which is different from the deep skirted block design of the VQ engines, and is a unique engine other than basic geometry.
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Old 16th November 2007, 11:00 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Oh yes, King Nismo and bonzelite, check all my other posts to see if I'm a man who should know or not.

A few other snippet for you monkeys....

Piston pin diameter 23mm
Piston compression height 32.5mm
Counterweight radius 94.5mm (limits max capacity to 3.8L with fixed bay balance)
Max oil flow 60 l/min (although the pump delivers 120l/min at 6800 rpm, but obviously most of it is relieved by the PRV).

Max heat-to-oil (at VMax) approx 34 kW (which is why there is a bloody big oil cooler mounted in the fog light position
Max water flow approx 300 l/min (the VQ35 max water flow is only 180 l/min), with max heat-to-water of 137 kW
Max heat-to-air (for intercoolers) approx 41 kW......!
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Old 16th November 2007, 12:36 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Wink your the man. Thanks for making the gtr forum a better place and posting info worth reading.
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Old 16th November 2007, 04:17 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wink View Post
Oh yes, King Nismo and bonzelite, check all my other posts to see if I'm a man who should know or not.

A few other snippet for you monkeys....

Piston pin diameter 23mm
Piston compression height 32.5mm
Counterweight radius 94.5mm (limits max capacity to 3.8L with fixed bay balance)
Max oil flow 60 l/min (although the pump delivers 120l/min at 6800 rpm, but obviously most of it is relieved by the PRV).

Max heat-to-oil (at VMax) approx 34 kW (which is why there is a bloody big oil cooler mounted in the fog light position
Max water flow approx 300 l/min (the VQ35 max water flow is only 180 l/min), with max heat-to-water of 137 kW
Max heat-to-air (for intercoolers) approx 41 kW......!

Hey...even kings were wrong sometimes LOL But, as I said before I need to stick to the old GT-R which I know about. This new car is too complicated for me...Trying to learn more about this car and still hold on to the knowledge of the old GT-Rs tuning "system overload" as GTC said...your the man and corrected me in my own thread. So the VR38 will be pretty much like the Flat 6 in the 997? only can get bored out a little? Doesn't matter really it is still a nice engine. And I thought the V6 was on par with the V8 in the 390? I ONLY post what I read nothing more.
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Old 16th November 2007, 04:49 PM   #16 (permalink)
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LoL some people actually thought the VR38 was derived from the old VRH35L?! The engines have NOTHING....NOTHING in common besides the alluminum construction and VR first two letters in the engine code. The VRH35L was based off the VH45 used in the Infiniti Q45 back from 1990! Nissan wouldnt dare use that old technology in their 2008 Super car... use common sense people.
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Old 16th November 2007, 07:31 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I for one knew that...I thought it was a 100% brand new engine.
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Old 16th November 2007, 08:37 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wink View Post


"Yes it is based on that V8 in the 390".

Sorry, but this is just stupid. In the first phase the cylinder heads, chain drive, water pump and valvetrain were carry over VQ35, and everything else was new...
Based on the R390's V8 or not, that doesn't make it a VQ. My premise is more about VQ-basis ---yes or no. VR prefix is of a prior Nissan V8. Why did they use VR, then?

And a further question, can you then take standard fare VQ35 heads and swap them onto the R35 without consequence?

Quote:
although the water pump was speeded up by reducing the number of teeth on the water pump sprocket from 31 to 29. For the 2nd phase it was again all new and improved (even over the 1st concept engines), with new cylinder heads, etc, but NOTHING from the 390 engine!!! The only carry over parts are valve spring collets, and the water pump from the latest VQ35 engine, but speeded up again.
And that still doesn't make it a VQ-based engine. People have been touting the VR38 to be a derivation of the VQ engine. And I don't believe it is. It's all new, specifically built for the GT-R. I have maintained this from the beginning.

Talk of the VRH, the old engine, did surface a while back. I was asking for confirmation, yes or no, if this was true since that was never mentioned again after the TMS. The VR prefix only ever appears in a V8 engine prior to this new one.

They didn't put a VQ variant into the GT-R, which is the greater point. It is a new engine entirely.





Quote:
Doh! Bank angles for V6 can be between 15 degrees (e.g. VW VR6), to 90 degrees (Rover KV6, Audi V6's etc). 60 degrees is used as this gives the best compromise between balance, package, etc whilst still enabling even firing.
Yes I know that.

But 60 degrees is the best and most commonly used without use of a damper. My point was that a 60 degree bank angle appearing on the VQ, and then on the VR, doesn't make the VR a derivation of the VQ. Nissan would have used a 60-degree angle regardless.

Quote:
The R35 engine did not need to have the same bore spacing, bank stagger etc as the VQ35 engine, but Nissan wanted to carry over the VQ "DNA" as they say. The R35 engine is actually a bed plate design, which is different from the deep skirted block design of the VQ engines, and is a unique engine other than basic geometry.
Yes.

You have great specific information which is what I was asking for in the first place.

The GT-R engine is not based on the VQ. And why they have used a VR code of a prior V8 iteration is still not answered. VR is a V8 prefix.
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Old 16th November 2007, 09:01 PM   #19 (permalink)
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This either adds to the confusion of origin of the VR prefix code, or sheds light on the issue.

If the following info is true, then those claiming the VR38DETT has nothing to do with the VRH are incorrect. And will explain why Nissan carried the VR prefix --they did it for a specific reason as they could have used many other letters of the alphabet to designate the new GT-R engine --but they chose VR.

from:
VR38DETT Engine Overview - GT-R TECH : The Nissan GT-R Information Resource | GT-R Forums | GT-R Guides |

"The Nissan GT-R powerplant is derived both from Nissan's Racing V8 engines and the extremely successful VQ series engines. In essence it is a modern day hybrid of racing technologies, and proven reliability.Then engine is rated at 480 horsepower, although speculators believe this is severely underrated due to the recent performance of the GT-R on the famous Nurburgring. Being as heavy as the GT-R is, and performing like it does, the speculators are probably correct.

Settling on a twin turbo V6 configuration, Nissan has developed an amazing engine. Check back often for updates as we learn more about the heart of Godzilla."
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Old 17th November 2007, 12:35 AM   #20 (permalink)
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"The Nissan GT-R powerplant is derived both from Nissan's Racing V8 engines and the extremely successful VQ series engines. In essence it is a modern day hybrid of racing technologies, and proven reliability."

So I was right? for me! I guess the information really won't hit the fan until the car comes out nex month in Japan. Bonzelite...as you can see I am TRYING to get used to this new GT-R. I don't bash the car like I did in the past but I am new to the V6 configuration. So about 60 degree this and that I don't have a much knowledge. Yes I understand what 60 degree means common sense tells me that but about the bank etc I will pass. I still believe someday someone will slap an RB26 in there..and I can't wait until that day comes. Something I know about and is easy to figure out. Also where are people getting their information from because everytime I post I get told it is wrong.
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